Transitioning 3-man to 2-man crew.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Adam

My only question here is, do you chase the ball down when it heads 20-30 feet out of bounds? We're told specifically not to chase the ball, especially if it entails turning your back on the players.

I've searched through my old emails and I can't find the email that I'm remembering... so I must back-track a bit from my assertion that my association stated this directly (maybe it was verbally at a meeting instead of an email or from one of my non-association assignors).

But the instruction that I recall was simply to not tell players to go get the ball (looks lazy and it is not their job). 99% of the time, the ball makes it's way back to the official in a reasonable amount of time. In a case where the ball ends up at the other end of the court and no player is nearby to pick it up, the game is now being held up. It would be inappropriate for the officials to direct one of the players to go chase after it. In that case, the nearest official should jog over and get it.

But I did not mean to suggest that every time the ball goes out of bounds, there should be an official running right after it and turning his back to the players.

[Adam]

Fair enough. In that case, I think waiting would be appropriate. It's not our job to chase the ball around, IMO. Dead ball periods are more vital for all available eyes to be on the players. Normally, if it ends up in the stands, there's an 8 year old thrilled to throw it to the refs.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Adam

Fair enough. In that case, I think waiting would be appropriate. It's not our job to chase the ball around, IMO. Dead ball periods are more vital for all available eyes to be on the players. Normally, if it ends up in the stands, there's an 8 year old thrilled to throw it to the refs.

Agree that waiting will usually solve the problem. I think the point would be that it's not necessarily the players job either. So "let them" get the ball but don't "direct them" to get the ball.

"White 21 ... go get the ball please" isn't something I'm going to say. I'm going to go get the ball myself if we are truly at a standstill.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Agree that waiting will usually solve the problem. I think the point would be that it's not necessarily the players job either. So "let them" get the ball but don't "direct them" to get the ball.

"White 21 ... go get the ball please" isn't something I'm going to say. I'm going to go get the ball myself if we are truly at a standstill.

I'll ask, but only if it takes longer than normal. Even then, it's "Can I get some help with the ball?"

I don't mind the stand-still.

The situation has always resolved itself before the stand-still, though.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

Agree that waiting will usually solve the problem. I think the point would be that it's not necessarily the players job either. So "let them" get the ball but don't "direct them" to get the ball.

"White 21 ... go get the ball please" isn't something I'm going to say. I'm going to go get the ball myself if we are truly at a standstill.

Not me. I'd go find a drink first. I don't chase basketballs.

[Raymond]

About 90% of my summer games are at same facility. We get $23-25/game. The on site game admin for all the AAU tournaments is the national coordinator for AAU officiating, and also a neutral observer for my top college conference. I can get away with limited switches and long distance reporting in 2-man to keep the games moving, but anything that could be construed as lazy or unprofessional would be very detrimental to my career.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

About 90% of my summer games are at same facility. We get $23-25/game. The on site game admin for all the AAU tournaments is the national coordinator for AAU officiating, and also a neutral observer for my top college conference. I can get away with limited switches and long distance reporting in 2-man to keep the games moving, but anything that could be construed as lazy or unprofessional would be very detrimental to my career.

Surprised that you would put yourself in a position which could turn out to "be very detrimental to your career" for $23-$25 per game.

AAU has a national coordinator of officiating? Can't believe that organization gives a darn in any way about officiating. To hear that their national coordinator is only offering $25 a game, makes it clear why so many of those AAU tournaments try get the officials for cut rates. No thanks!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

To hear that their national coordinator is only offering $25 a game, makes it clear why so many of those AAU tournaments try get the officials for cut rates. No thanks!

I do not consider a running clock game that might last an hour "cut rate." Not to say that is a great fee, but it is not like if you do those games you are doing all the stuff you would during the regular season.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Surprised that you would put yourself in a position which could turn out to "be very detrimental to your career" for $23-$25 per game.

AAU has a national coordinator of officiating? Can't believe that organization gives a darn in any way about officiating. To hear that their national coordinator is only offering $25 a game, makes it clear why so many of those AAU tournaments try get the officials for cut rates. No thanks!

He has nothing to do with paying or assigning local officials for AAU. I said he was site admin for local tournaments.

AAU has national officials who travel to different sites to work games every summer. He is the 1 who vets the applications for national officials.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

About 90% of my summer games are at same facility. We get $23-25/game. The on site game admin for all the AAU tournaments is the national coordinator for AAU officiating, and also a neutral observer for my top college conference. I can get away with limited switches and long distance reporting in 2-man to keep the games moving, but anything that could be construed as lazy or unprofessional would be very detrimental to my career.

In my area, these games are basically assigning warm bodies. Most veteran or experienced officials do not even take these games unless they are basically "whoring" for the money. That has included me as well from time to time. I do not do these games really for any other reason but to possibly see more plays. But if the money was not a factor, I would stay home. Otherwise it is not that deep or no one of significance is evaluating officials based off of what is done at this level. And in many cases a person is working 5 and 6 games in a row. This just goes to show that we all live in different officiating cultures.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

In my area, these games are basically assigning warm bodies. Most veteran or experienced officials do not even take these games unless they are basically "whoring" for the money. That has included me as well from time to time. I do not do these games really for any other reason but to possibly see more plays. But if the money was not a factor, I would stay home. Otherwise it is not that deep or no one of significance is evaluating officials based off of what is done at this level. And in many cases a person is working 5 and 6 games in a row. This just goes to show that we all live in different officiating cultures.

Peace

Me too. I'm doing 4 JV level games next Sunday back to back and it's to put a C-note in my pocket. I'm going to Disney World next month with the family and with all the prepaid stuff I already feel like I'm hemorrhaging money.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not do these games really for any other reason but to possibly see more plays.

Bingo.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not do these games really for any other reason but to possibly see more plays.

Me too, and to work on my coach/player management skillz.

[BillyMac]

This thread reminds me about some of the "relaxed" mechanics that we are allowed to use, that is, allowed by our assigner to use, in the Catholic middle school league that I work when I'm available in the winter.

Multiple games, with six, or seven, minute periods are scheduled on the hour, and our assigner encourages us (all two person games) to keep the game moving.

1) Don't switch on every foul. Switch when "convenient", or only on shooting fouls.

2) Lead doesn't have to report fouls to the table from the reporting area. The Lead may report fouls to the table from near the free throw line (not from the endline).

3) As the Lead, don't make your partner, the trail, rotate on front court endline throwins where the designated spot is along the lane lines. The Lead is allowed to toss the ball to the inbounder across the lane, or hand the ball to the inbounder and back off across the lane, in such situations. The ball must still be put in play at the closest spot.

4) We're allowed to "bump up" the timeouts.

If I'm working with a rookie who wants to work on his, or her, mechanics, then I'll be glad to play along and go with 100% "by the book" mechanics.

No matter how many games we're working that day, we are always expected to hustle.

In regard to these "bad habits" carrying over to our high school games, they don't. We've got college officials, state tournament officials, and other top notch high school varsity officials working these Catholic middle school games, and they have no problem figuring out when "relaxed" mechanics are allowed, and when they're not allowed.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I've searched through my old emails and I can't find the email that I'm remembering... so I must back-track a bit from my assertion that my association stated this directly (maybe it was verbally at a meeting instead of an email or from one of my non-association assignors).

But the instruction that I recall was simply to not tell players to go get the ball (looks lazy and it is not their job). 99% of the time, the ball makes it's way back to the official in a reasonable amount of time. In a case where the ball ends up at the other end of the court and no player is nearby to pick it up, the game is now being held up. It would be inappropriate for the officials to direct one of the players to go chase after it. In that case, the nearest official should jog over and get it.

But I did not mean to suggest that every time the ball goes out of bounds, there should be an official running right after it and turning his back to the players.

For what it's worth, I did find the email I was thinking of and it was from our Scholastic commissioner/assigner to all officials based on his observations from the first couple weeks of the season:

"There is no NFHS rule or Association policy that states players are supposed to retrieve a loose ball. It is the responsibility of a member of the crew to retrieve the ball while the other member/s of crew observe the players. Forcing players to retrieve the ball gives the appearance we are lazy or out of shape."