An Informal Survey

[Freddy]

Same play gets the same call/no-call regardless where, by, or between whom.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Same play gets the same call/no-call regardless where, by, or between whom.

I'd shy away from that, as it can be misinterpreted pretty easily.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Same play gets the same call/no-call regardless where, by, or between whom.

Is that really true?

Just playing devil's advocate...if a game starts out "a little chippy" and you have tried talking post players out of bumping in/near the paint, a little hip (even if they are not trying to feed the post at that ecxact moment) in the first minute of Q2 may get a whistle and a soft comment "I tried to warn you" as you go to report. Fast forward to the last minute of a tied game...will that exact same little bump under the exact same circumstances get a whistle? My guess is for most officials the answer would be no.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

Is that really true?

Just playing devil's advocate...if a game starts out "a little chippy" and you have tried talking post players out of bumping in/near the paint, a little hip (even if they are not trying to feed the post at that ecxact moment) in the first minute of Q2 may get a whistle and a soft comment "I tried to warn you" as you go to report. Fast forward to the last minute of a tied game...will that exact same little bump under the exact same circumstances get a whistle? My guess is for most officials the answer would be no.

If it's something you've called earlier, letting it go in the last minute is not the way to go.

[HokiePaul]

I think this is three things that my association does/provides to schools/leagues that I don't see in other "non-association" games that I work.

1) a certain expectation of professionalism from all the officials (dress code to games, arrive on time, etc)

2) a certain level of training/competence from all the officials (obviously not perfect, but schools/leagues using our association know that the officials will be trained and competent to work the level assigned).

3) all the administration involved (one point of contact who takes care of everything involved with officials (scheduling, paying)

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by Adam

If it's something you've called earlier, letting it go in the last minute is not the way to go.

I agree with you and that is something I get "dinged" on from time to time. I have had a lot of partners that do not follow that logic.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

Is that really true?

Just playing devil's advocate...if a game starts out "a little chippy" and you have tried talking post players out of bumping in/near the paint, a little hip (even if they are not trying to feed the post at that ecxact moment) in the first minute of Q2 may get a whistle and a soft comment "I tried to warn you" as you go to report. Fast forward to the last minute of a tied game...will that exact same little bump under the exact same circumstances get a whistle? My guess is for most officials the answer would be no.

Battery Powered:

You told them the first time they started to get "chippy". Why did you wait to the Second Quarter to finally put air in your whistle? One "talking to" and then the whistle.

MTD, Sr.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

Is that really true?

Just playing devil's advocate...if a game starts out "a little chippy" and you have tried talking post players out of bumping in/near the paint, a little hip (even if they are not trying to feed the post at that ecxact moment) in the first minute of Q2 may get a whistle and a soft comment "I tried to warn you" as you go to report. Fast forward to the last minute of a tied game...will that exact same little bump under the exact same circumstances get a whistle? My guess is for most officials the answer would be no.

Good point. Given the totality of whole game, that wouldn't be the same play due to the changed circumstances between the two sitches you state. Now, for the entire association or assigning pool to be trained to understand the distinction you make and judge accordingly and similarly in the same "whole game" situation(s) you cite, that's what I mean by it.
I am, however, reconsidering the phraseology of what I'm toying with due to your concern.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Good point. Given the totality of whole game, that -- and perhaps this is stretching it a little bit -- wouldn't be the same play due to the changed circumstances between the two sitches you state. Now, for the entire association or assigning pool to be trained to understand the distinction you make and judge accordingly, that's what I mean by it.
I am, however, reconsidering the phraseology of what I'm toying with due to your concern.

This is why I'm generally not a fan of the term. The chances of two identical plays happening in the same game are nearly zero. There's always some difference, and whether that difference is significant enough to warrant a different call is up to the calling official.

[BillyMac]

To educate, train, develop, and provide continuous instruction for basketball officials.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Now, for the entire association or assigning pool to be trained to understand the distinction you make and judge accordingly and similarly in the same "whole game" situation(s) you cite, that's what I mean by it.

Good luck with this endeavor. It isn't even remotely realistic or possible.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Good luck with this endeavor. It isn't even remotely realistic or possible.

Admittedly.
Yet any good association has a trainer or a training staff who works with a set of aims, sometimes lofty ones.
Or else by default they unwittingly target mediocrity and get even less.
Aimin' high here.

[Rich1]

I deal with mission statements, core values, etc. as part of my day job and what I have learned from years of experience is that what really matters is "organizational culture". Simply defined, core values are what you SAY but culture is what you DO or ALLOW.

Take a look at what your group does or allows and that will tell you what the true core values are. If they need changing, then start by getting those who set the examples you want emulated to take a more active role in the organization and create systems that reinforce the culture you want.

We don't have an official statement or policy, but like all organizations, we have a culture and professionalism is a good word for it.

We talk a lot in our chapter meetings about doing what it takes to be the best chapter around -- consistent & proper mechanics, fair & wise judgement, study & enforce the rules, communicate with & stand behind your partners, and always be calm & respectful when dealing with fans, players, coaches & each other.

I believe establishing a culture that embodies the above ideals is more important than any set of stated core values. The hard part is doing the work it takes to maintain this culture but its worth it.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Admittedly.
Yet any good association has a trainer or a training staff who works with a set of aims, sometimes lofty ones.
Or else by default they unwittingly target mediocrity and get even less.
Aimin' high here.

Nothing wrong with any of this. However, to expand on my previous point, we have guys on this site that post plays in super-slow motion and draw multi-colored lines on still shots from those plays among other things, and on many of those plays, the group cannot agree upon the proper call. Thus, I think your mission statement or whatever you were calling it to help sell your association is going to be more detrimental than beneficial in the long run because you will be over-promising on something that no amount of training will allow you to deliver. It might be something for your group to strive for internally, but not something you promise others you can deliver.

[JRutledge]

For basketball I belong to 3 associations and really the focus is simply training for all of them. That is pretty much it. That is our focus and something we try to get better at all the time.

Peace