Player goes out of bound & touches the ball

[APG]

Originally Posted by potato

under the 1st scenario, would B1 be called a goaltending should he jumped from out of bounds to interrupt the ball when it's going downwards, or will it still be counted as out of bound A ball?

so in both NFHS & NBA, can i say that if the player established possession of the ball while trying to save it throws the ball back in, it shall be considered a pass thus the player may not be the 1st to touch the ball even if he's already inbound?

If a player is pulling off your first scenario, he should be considering representing his country in the long jump. To answer your scenario, a player would be committing two violations at the same time...pick the more severe of the two, award the basket and continue otherwise.

As to your second scenario, you are mixing up an NBA interpretation with the other rule sets. Just to be clear, the interpretation I gave out earlier is SOLELY UNDER NBA RULES (capitalization and bolding to emphasize this point).

Under NFHS/NCAA rules, the act of gaining possession and throwing it back in should be considered the start of a dribble...and penalize or allow as appropriate. It should also be pointed out that one can not, by definition by the ball to oneself.

[potato]

well if the player is around the baseline & tall enough it should be possible to goaltend a ball going down towards the basket but i get your point.

for scenario 2, what if the player already dribbling, ball going out of bounds, player jumps out to save the ball? i'm guessing the way he saves the ball will determine whether he's allowed to be the 1st to touch the ball when he's inbound? say if he catches the ball & throws it back in and touches it again, it'd be a violation (double dribble), and if simply push/swap the ball in without holding/palming the ball he can be the 1st the touch the ball & continue the dribble or catches the ball when he gets back inbound? but any chance it be treated as a fumble after a dribble & player still allowed to be the 1st to secure the ball?

Originally Posted by APG

If a player is pulling off your first scenario, he should be considering representing his country in the long jump. To answer your scenario, a player would be committing two violations at the same time...pick the more severe of the two, award the basket and continue otherwise.

As to your second scenario, you are mixing up an NBA interpretation with the other rule sets. Just to be clear, the interpretation I gave out earlier is SOLELY UNDER NBA RULES (capitalization and bolding to emphasize this point).

Under NFHS/NCAA rules, the act of gaining possession and throwing it back in should be considered the start of a dribble...and penalize or allow as appropriate. It should also be pointed out that one can not, by definition by the ball to oneself.

[Raymond]

Potato, whether or not a player went OOB is completely irrelevant to your 2nd set of scenarios.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by potato

Was dribbling near the line lost his balance, pushes the ball inbound before player goes out of bound (not ending his dribble), gets both feet back in bound & continues to dribble.

If it's not an interrupted dribble, then this note should apply:

NFHS 9-3 Note: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary,
even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds

It doesn't sound like this (original post) is an interrupted dribble:

Originally Posted by potato

Was dribbling near the line lost his balance, pushes the ball inbound before player goes out of bound (not ending his dribble), gets both feet back in bound & continues to dribble.

NFHS 4-15-5: An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting
off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler. There is no
player control during an interrupted dribble.

This tells me that it was not an interrupted dribble:

Originally Posted by potato

... pushes the ball inbound ...

The ball obviously didn't deflect off the dribbler, and it sounds like it did not momentarily gets away from the dribbler.

Thank God for NFHS 9-3-Note in this day in age when everyone is videotaping everything. "But he wasn't touching the ball when his foot touched the boundary."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If it's not an interrupted dribble, then this note should apply:

NFHS 9-3 Note: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary,
even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds

It doesn't sound like this (original post) is an interrupted dribble:



NFHS 4-15-5: An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after deflecting
off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the dribbler. There is no
player control during an interrupted dribble.

This tells me that it was not an interrupted dribble:



The ball obviously didn't deflect off the dribbler, and it sounds like it did not momentarily gets away from the dribbler.

Thank God for NFHS 9-3-Note in this day in age when everyone is videotaping everything. "But he wasn't touching the ball when his foot touched the boundary."

Sure, it momentarily got away from the dribbler, nothing requires this to be accidental or against his will.
Interrupted dribble.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Sure, it momentarily got away from the dribbler. Interrupted dribble.

"Pushes the ball inbound(s)" was the clue that I used to deduce that the dribbler had control of the ball, thus, not an interrupted dribble. I guess that you had to be there. The time, and distance, between the "pushes the ball inbound(s)", and the stepping out of bounds, may be a factor in our conflicting interruptions. Maybe I'm viewing these events as occurring more rapidly than what happened in reality. Maybe potato can post the videotape?

[potato]

So is it safe to say if the person dived out of bound to save the ball had possession of the ball (holding 2 hands or 1 hand) lobs it back into court, can't be the 1st one to touch the ball as it'd be a self pass violation?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by potato

So is it safe to say if the person dived out of bound to save the ball had possession of the ball (holding 2 hands or 1 hand) lobs it back into court, can't be the 1st one to touch the ball as it'd be a self pass violation?

there's no such thing as a "self pass violation" (at least in FED and NCAA).

If the player had control, and threw the ball to the floor -- that move is the start of a dribble (or at least treated as one). Judge further touching using the dribble rules.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by potato

So is it safe to say if the person dived out of bound to save the ball had possession of the ball (holding 2 hands or 1 hand) lobs it back into court, can't be the 1st one to touch the ball as it'd be a self pass violation?

No, it's not safe to say.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by potato

So is it safe to say if the person dived out of bound to save the ball had possession of the ball (holding 2 hands or 1 hand) lobs it back into court, can't be the 1st one to touch the ball as it'd be a self pass violation?

Why do keep on including out of bounds to your scenarios? It has nothing to do with whether or not there is a travel.