Player goes out of bound & touches the ball

[potato]

I would like to know is it considered out of bound or illegal for the following scenarios:

1.B1 goes out of bound legally (diving for ball), A1 gets the ball & attempts a shot, B1 jumps from out of bound towards A1 to contest the shot & touches the ball, would it be considered out of bound A teams ball if:
1a.B1 touches the ball A1 is in possession of.
1b.B1 touches the ball after A1 released the ball (block shot) & shot misses.
1c.B1 touches the ball after A1 release & ball goes in the basket.


2.Is there a difference between NBA & NFHS rule regarding players going out of bound saving a ball & reenters the court with both feet in bound allowed to be the 1st player to touch the ball?
If the player is allowed to do so:
2a.Does it matter if the player jumps out of bound grab the ball & throws it back inbound before player lands out of bound comes back & be the 1st one to touch the ball (would the save be counted as a pass which he cannot be the 1st to touch?).
2b.Was dribbling near the line lost his balance, pushes the ball inbound before player goes out of bound (not ending his dribble), gets both feet back in bound & continues to dribble.

[Raymond]

#1) Assuming you mean B1 touches the ball without ever coming back inbounds, it would be an immediate OOB violation when B1 touches the ball in all of those scenarios.

#2) There is no requirement to have both feet inbounds by the NFHS, so I'm not sure what you are asking.

2a) OOB has nothing to do with this play, only whether or not we have an illegal dribble depending on factors that are unknown in your scenario.

2b) Legal

[APG]

Originally Posted by potato

2.Is there a difference between NBA & NFHS rule regarding players going out of bound saving a ball & reenters the court with both feet in bound allowed to be the 1st player to touch the ball?
If the player is allowed to do so:
2a.Does it matter if the player jumps out of bound grab the ball & throws it back inbound before player lands out of bound comes back & be the 1st one to touch the ball (would the save be counted as a pass which he cannot be the 1st to touch?).
2b.Was dribbling near the line lost his balance, pushes the ball inbound before player goes out of bound (not ending his dribble), gets both feet back in bound & continues to dribble.

NBA only:

In the NBA, if a player saving the ball bats the ball, he may return (meaning only one foot back in and nothing OOB) and be the first person to touch the ball. If he throws the ball (meaning he gains possession), he may NOT be the first person to touch the ball after returning OOB.

[CountTheBasket]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

#1) Assuming you mean B1 touches the ball without ever coming back inbounds, it would be an immediate OOB violation when B1 touches the ball in all of those scenarios.

Even in 1c. after the made basket?!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

Even in 1c. after the made basket?!

Why would that make a difference? Once he touches the ball, it's dead b/c of the OOB violation.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why would that make a difference? Once he touches the ball, it's dead b/c of the OOB violation.

what he said. it's an OOB violation when the ball is touched.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why would that make a difference? Once he touches the ball, it's dead b/c of the OOB violation.

Let's add 1d) for what I think CountTheBasket was thinking...

1d) A1's attempt goes in. B1 jumps from out of bounds and grabs the ball as it comes through the basket.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Altor

Let's add 1d) for what I think CountTheBasket was thinking...

1d) A1's attempt goes in. B1 jumps from out of bounds and grabs the ball as it comes through the basket.

Play on. Player just grabbed a dead ball and will proceed with the throw-in.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by CountTheBasket

Even in 1c. after the made basket?!

I think you are thinking of the exception for a foul not making the ball dead when it's during a try. There's no exception for an OOB violation (there is for a "swinging elbows" violation).

[dsavitzky]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

#1) Assuming you mean B1 touches the ball without ever coming back inbounds, it would be an immediate OOB violation when B1 touches the ball in all of those scenarios.

#2) There is no requirement to have both feet inbounds by the NFHS, so I'm not sure what you are asking.

2a) OOB has nothing to do with this play, only whether or not we have an illegal dribble depending on factors that are unknown in your scenario.

2b) Legal

Wouldn't (2b) be illegal? It reads as if player control never ends in the scenario. So if the player steps out of bounds while there's player control, isn't it an OOB violation even if he's not actually touching the ball when he's out?

Originally Posted by dsavitzky

Wouldn't (2b) be illegal? It reads as if player control never ends in the scenario. So if the player steps out of bounds while there's player control, isn't it an OOB violation even if he's not actually touching the ball when he's out?

It's an interrupted dribble. No player control, player can go out of bounds by accident and come back in as long as he's not gaining an advantage (going around a screen, etc.). He can also continue his dribble, provided he establishes location in-bounds.

[dsavitzky]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It's an interrupted dribble. No player control, player can go out of bounds by accident and come back in as long as he's not gaining an advantage (going around a screen, etc.). He can also continue his dribble, provided he establishes location in-bounds.

If you consider it an interrupted dribble. But he specifically said "not ending his dribble" in the original scenario.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by dsavitzky

If you consider it an interrupted dribble. But he specifically said "not ending his dribble" in the original scenario.

Terminology is important.
An interrupted dribble hasn't ended. Allowing the ball to come to rest in one hand, touching it simultaneously with two hands, or losing control because of a touch by an opposing player all end a dribble.
The author wrote what he did to distinguish between the player ending his dribble and then releasing ball into the court before falling out and the player simply pushing or batting the ball with one hand then stepping out.
Whether there is player control or not is a judgment call.

[potato]

under the 1st scenario, would B1 be called a goaltending should he jumped from out of bounds to interrupt the ball when it's going downwards, or will it still be counted as out of bound A ball?

so in both NFHS & NBA, can i say that if the player established possession of the ball while trying to save it throws the ball back in, it shall be considered a pass thus the player may not be the 1st to touch the ball even if he's already inbound?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by potato

under the 1st scenario, would B1 be called a goaltending should he jumped from out of bounds to interrupt the ball when it's going downwards, or will it still be counted as out of bound A ball?

so in both NFHS & NBA, can i say that if the player established possession of the ball while trying to save it throws the ball back in, it shall be considered a pass thus the player may not be the 1st to touch the ball even if he's already inbound?

1. There is no rule which covers a player committing simultaneous violations. There is an officiating principle to penalize the more severe of the infringements. So if this ever happened, I would penalize the goaltending. However, since the endline is four feet behind the plane of the backboard, I doubt that such will occur. I can envision an otherwise legally blocked shot with a shooter in the corner and a defender jumping from out of bounds.

2. There is no rule preventing a player from retrieving his own errant pass at the NCAA and NFHS levels. It would simply be a dribble if allowed to strike the floor before the catch. If the player had already dribbled, then this second dribble would constitute a violation. If the ball does not contact the floor and the player has moved his pivot, the ruling is an illegal dribble violation. Otherwise, the action described is perfectly legal. Don't get caught in the "self pass" myth!