Held ball or foul?

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

They can? As a blanket statement?

They can. Sometimes it will be a foul and sometimes it won't.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

They can. Sometimes it will be a foul and sometimes it won't.

Not on purpose.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not on purpose.

I understand your thinking here but I don't think its reasonable to assume that blocking cuts, boxing out, bellying up to ballhandlers, running through the lane, posting up and post defense, denying players etc when contact we deem as incidental is occuring "accidently". People are taking lines and angles for a reason and they are being coached to create or intiate the contact on both offense and defense constantly.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

I understand your thinking here but I don't think its reasonable to assume that blocking cuts, boxing out, bellying up to ballhandlers, running through the lane, posting up and post defense, denying players etc when contact we deem as incidental is occuring "accidently". People are taking lines and angles for a reason and they are being coached to create or intiate the contact on both offense and defense constantly.

Indeed, but these are not at all the same as diving on a player who is laying on the floor.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Indeed, but these are not at all the same as diving on a player who is laying on the floor.

We are not talking about diving on a player. We are talking about leaving their feet (jumping) to make a play on a ball that in this case results in ending up paritlally or entirely on top of a player who was already on the floor. If there is not play on the ball and they are just jumping onto a player on the floor that is a different issue.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

We are not talking about diving on a player. We are talking about leaving their feet (jumping) to make a play on a ball that in this case results in ending up paritlally or entirely on top of a player who was already on the floor. If there is not play on the ball and they are just jumping onto a player on the floor that is a different issue.

Uh, that is diving on another player. Not sure how you can reasonably describe it as anything else.

Remember, that player on the floor had the ball.

Compare that to a player standing with the ball and an opponent jumps at that player, in an attempt to play the ball, and slams into that player. Are you saying that you let defenders do that? If so, why? If not, how is it any different than when a player is on the floor.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Uh, that is diving on another player. Not sure how you can reasonably describe it as anything else.

Remember, that player on the floor had the ball.

Compare that to a player standing with the ball and an opponent jumps at that player, in an attempt to play the ball, and slams into that player. Are you saying that you let defenders do that? If so, why? If not, how is it any different than when a player is on the floor.

The player on the floor has the ball.

I can jump to make a play on the ball. (Vertical or Horizontal). If we end up tied up vertical/horizontal then that isn't creating contact and now are in equally advantageous/disadvantgeous position, and any contact that happens after this now needs to be judged in terms of excess or rough play not.

By saying "diving on" and "slam into" you make it sound like every play on the held ball is a Jimmy Snuka Super Splash. There are any number of possible outcomes that result in all or part of a player on top of the player holding the ball they tied up by jumping.

IF the player is standing and i dive at the ball and chop block the player in the process = foul. If i Jump at the ball and tie it up and end up belly to belly standing or slide/fall to my butt once the ball is tied end up wrapped around his leg with my lower body . .. etc. Then these are making contact but not slamming or throwing around and could be seen as incidental.

Same with a player on the floor I can leave my feet at a player on the floor to make a play on the ball and have any or all of my body end up on the player and have" jumped on". Location of the ball, whether or not I needed to make contact first to gain access to the ball, how much contact ends up being made, whether its reasonable amount of contact given the level/age/game/previous calls etc. . .all come into play.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!

Not good to have a spelling error in every post that you make!