Kentucky/UConn PC on spin (video)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Technically it is a travel, but one that is not called at this level.

What does that comment mean?
That officials at the NCAA level are supposed to ignore this clear traveling violation?
That the athletes at the NCAA level are so big and fast that the officials don't see this traveling violation and miss it?
That the officials in NCAA games are looking for the contact/foul and miss the travel?
That the NCAA officials have been instructed to not penalize this footwork?

Please pick one of the above and clarify your statement for us because in my opinion this footwork is clearly illegal and gives the offensive player a huge advantage in getting around a defender near the basket. I don't see how the defender has a fair chance of guarding an opponent who is permitted this extra replacement of the pivot foot prior to jumping. It basically makes the attacking post player unguardable.

[JRutledge]

He is suggesting (what he has suggested for years) that officials deliberately ignore these violations. But he and most never seem to realized, that many of these types of plays are missed. These plays are hard to identify sometimes when you are not only looking for contact, but the feet. And you might not have seen either clearly. It is this stupid myth that NBA just ignores violations and the NF or HS officials are so pure in their application of these violations. I see just as many missed HS traveling calls as I do at all other levels of basketball. That is why traveling IMO is the hardest call to consistently make. And often HS officials call what is "funny" looking, rather than what is actually a violation. This is very much the truth at varsity and lower level games.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What does that comment mean?


That the NCAA officials have been instructed to not penalize this footwork?

That's the one.

The word technical I have seen used by others in this situation. I don't know what that means either. Travels in general and the spin move in particular happen so often without a call that I find it impossible to believe that they were missed. This one is a perfect example.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That's the one.

The word technical I have seen used by others in this situation. I don't know what that means either. Travels in general and the spin move in particular happen so often without a call that I find it impossible to believe that they were missed. This one is a perfect example.

NCAA officials have not been told to ignore the footwork. It is simply not addressed one way or another. If it were a problem, the coaches would complain, and the rules committee would issue a POE.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

NCAA officials have not been told to ignore the footwork. It is simply not addressed one way or another. If it were a problem, the coaches would complain, and the rules committee would issue a POE.

Apparently it's not a problem for them. It is consistently ignored, and apparently everybody is satisfied/used to it by now. It is a problem for me because I call it a travel and people have seen it allowed on tv so much they think it is legal.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Apparently it's not a problem for them. It is consistently ignored, and apparently everybody is satisfied/used to it by now. It is a problem for me because I call it a travel and people have seen it allowed on tv so much they think it is legal.

So, you're saying the NCAA needs to generate POE's based on the flack high school officials get from people? I don't think NCAA coaches, ADs, and commissioners are too concerned about that.

If it's a problem for you, then the NFHS needs to issue a POE so that high school coaches are fully aware that high school officials will be calling travels on illegal spin moves, and that high school coaches need to quit giving high school officials flack about it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So, you're saying the NCAA needs to generate POE's based on the flack high school officials get from people?

No, based on the rule book.

If it's a problem for you, then the NFHS needs to issue a POE so that high school coaches are fully aware that high school officials will be calling travels on illegal spin moves, and that high school coaches need to quit giving high school officials flack about it.

Traveling was a POE recently at least once, maybe twice.

(paraphrasing) The traveling rule has not changed, but the was it is (not) being enforced has. Read the rule. Call the violation when it occurs.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

No, based on the rule book.
...

I'll repeat--NCAA POEs occur when coaches complain. Coaches are not complaining. When/if they complain, then NCAA officiating will have to adjust.

Coaches complained about freedom of movement and too many PC fouls near the basket, so NCAA officiating was forced to adjust.

Why are you still getting flack from coaches if the NFHS has addressed traveling with POEs? Apparently HS coaches and the NFHS are not on the same page. Maybe that's the problem that needs to be addressed.

[ballgame99]

I have no idea why this move has not been called a travel at the college level. But its not. Ever. So one has to assume there has been some discussion about it. It will be called a travel in games that I work. You don't see it a ton in HS outside of the higher levels yet, but it is only a matter of time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I have no idea why this move has not been called a travel at the college level. But its not. Ever. So one has to assume there has been some discussion about it. It will be called a travel in games that I work. You don't see it a ton in HS outside of the higher levels yet, but it is only a matter of time.

And it gets called at the HS level all the time? What world are you living in? And there are more HS games than college games.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I have no idea why this move has not been called a travel at the college level. But its not. Ever. So one has to assume there has been some discussion about it. It will be called a travel in games that I work. You don't see it a ton in HS outside of the higher levels yet, but it is only a matter of time.

I know it was discussed at the NCAAW preseason meeting in Philly by one of the presenters some time within the last decade. I wish I'd been in the habit of saving the videos at the time. I specifically remember the presenter saying officials should try to avoid calling that move a travel. Of course, the presentations at the main meeting are made to primarily D1s. Folks like me weren't told anything one way or another during our league-specific meetings. Right now, the general message at all levels appears to be call what happens.

As for the HS level, the message I've received is the same: If they travel, get it. Just make sure you get the pivot foot and call it properly. An observer I had within the last few years told a group of us it's less likely a HS player will perform the move legally simply because they're not as skilled.