Kentucky/UConn PC on spin (video)

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So, you're saying the NCAA needs to generate POE's based on the flack high school officials get from people?

No, based on the rule book.

If it's a problem for you, then the NFHS needs to issue a POE so that high school coaches are fully aware that high school officials will be calling travels on illegal spin moves, and that high school coaches need to quit giving high school officials flack about it.

Traveling was a POE recently at least once, maybe twice.

(paraphrasing) The traveling rule has not changed, but the was it is (not) being enforced has. Read the rule. Call the violation when it occurs.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

No, based on the rule book.
...

I'll repeat--NCAA POEs occur when coaches complain. Coaches are not complaining. When/if they complain, then NCAA officiating will have to adjust.

Coaches complained about freedom of movement and too many PC fouls near the basket, so NCAA officiating was forced to adjust.

Why are you still getting flack from coaches if the NFHS has addressed traveling with POEs? Apparently HS coaches and the NFHS are not on the same page. Maybe that's the problem that needs to be addressed.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why are you still getting flack from coaches if the NFHS has addressed traveling with POEs? Apparently HS coaches and the NFHS are not on the same page. Maybe that's the problem that needs to be addressed.

Probably more likely that some officials and the NFHS are not on the same page. I think too many high school officials try to call the game the way they see the D1 game called whether it is consistent with the rules or not.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Probably more likely that some officials and the NFHS are not on the same page. I think too many high school officials try to call the game the way they see the D1 game called whether it is consistent with the rules or not.

I think too many HS officials try to play "gotcha" with the rule book, too. Way too many travels called that aren't really travels. Way too many fouls called that aren't fouls. Way too many 3-second violations called.

It takes far more courage and skill and feel for the game to NOT blow the whistle than to blow it in many cases.

You can be GREAT at the science of officiating, and horrible at the art, IMO.

[ballgame99]

I have no idea why this move has not been called a travel at the college level. But its not. Ever. So one has to assume there has been some discussion about it. It will be called a travel in games that I work. You don't see it a ton in HS outside of the higher levels yet, but it is only a matter of time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I have no idea why this move has not been called a travel at the college level. But its not. Ever. So one has to assume there has been some discussion about it. It will be called a travel in games that I work. You don't see it a ton in HS outside of the higher levels yet, but it is only a matter of time.

And it gets called at the HS level all the time? What world are you living in? And there are more HS games than college games.

Peace

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And it gets called at the HS level all the time? What world are you living in? And there are more HS games than college games.

Peace

Didn't say that, I said I haven't seen much of it in HS yet.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And it gets called at the HS level all the time? What world are you living in? And there are more HS games than college games.

Peace

I call this when I see it, but I've been encouraged to do so on this very specific move.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

I have no idea why this move has not been called a travel at the college level. But its not. Ever. So one has to assume there has been some discussion about it. It will be called a travel in games that I work. You don't see it a ton in HS outside of the higher levels yet, but it is only a matter of time.

I know it was discussed at the NCAAW preseason meeting in Philly by one of the presenters some time within the last decade. I wish I'd been in the habit of saving the videos at the time. I specifically remember the presenter saying officials should try to avoid calling that move a travel. Of course, the presentations at the main meeting are made to primarily D1s. Folks like me weren't told anything one way or another during our league-specific meetings. Right now, the general message at all levels appears to be call what happens.

As for the HS level, the message I've received is the same: If they travel, get it. Just make sure you get the pivot foot and call it properly. An observer I had within the last few years told a group of us it's less likely a HS player will perform the move legally simply because they're not as skilled.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I know it was discussed at the NCAAW preseason meeting in Philly by one of the presenters some time within the last decade. I wish I'd been in the habit of saving the videos at the time. I specifically remember the presenter saying officials should try to avoid calling that move a travel. Of course, the presentations at the main meeting are made to primarily D1s. Folks like me weren't told anything one way or another during our league-specific meetings. Right now, the general message at all levels appears to be call what happens.

As for the HS level, the message I've received is the same: If they travel, get it. Just make sure you get the pivot foot and call it properly. An observer I had within the last few years told a group of us it's less likely a HS player will perform the move legally simply because they're not as skilled.

I remember a few years ago, before Arbiter took over the NCAA hubs, that I saw an NCAA-Women's video where they were specifically looking for illegal spin moves to be called a travel. There were several examples shown in the video.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

Didn't say that, I said I haven't seen much of it in HS yet.

I see spin moves often in HS not called traveling. Now they are not inheriently travels, they have to be done properly. I see spin moves tried all the time in HS games.

Peace