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  #61 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:08pm
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From My Cold Dead Waist ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Didn't you say you never worked the playoffs? It would be one thing if you were the most accomplished official in your area, but according to what you have said here, you have not reached the top level in your area or state. Also no one tells people you are not going to wear a black belt or else here. But when you are the only one and you stand out looking like a goof, that is not going to help you if all things are equal. It is simply not encouraged. There is no ban or prohibition as I have stated before. It is like showing up to a game dressed. You might be able to get away with that in certain situations, but it will hurt you if you do it to at the wrong setting.
1) Correct. I am a journeyman official. Back twenty-five years ago, when belts were very common, I reached the zenith of my career, the top quarter of my local board. Wearing a belt, especially at that time, did not prevent my continued ascension through the ranks. Even today, with belts significantly less common, belts don't prevent a few (very few) of our top officials from working state tournament games.

2) The training committee tells rookies that they can wear a belt, or not wear a belt. Not only is there no belt ban (a negative statement), but the committee informs the rookies that belts are acceptable (a positive statement). That's the difference between where you officiate, and where I officiate. We tell rookies that they can wear a belt. While your training committee doesn't have a belt ban, I doubt that your training committee makes such a positive statement.

3) It sounds like your guidelines regarding proper dress for showing up for a high school game are similar to our cultural mores (no uniform, business casual). Some on this Forum would find that ridiculous. They show up for their games in uniform, and walk out in uniform. If an official did this (show up for a high school game in uniform) here in my little corner of Connecticut, they would be quickly advised, either orally, or in writing (through our rating system), to stop doing that. Yet, I fully understand that this cultural more can be very different in other areas, and I wouldn't question the competency, perceived, or otherwise, of such an official simply because they come to a game dressed in uniform, because I realize that it's an accepted guideline where they work.

JRutledge: My "Rome" isn't the same as your "Rome", or a lot of other "Romes". What's so hard to understand about that? Why do you have such a fascination, or fixation, with my waist? Hey. Eyes up here, please.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 22, 2014 at 01:01pm.
  #62 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:20pm
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Don't Call Us, We'll Call You ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
An assigner that expects me to track the arrow in a ms girls game is going to, hopefully, have plenty of other officials to work.
No hope needed. There's a line that goes all the way down the street, and our assigner only selects top prospects for our "board". We've got high school varsity officials (27 of 45 total), state tournament officials (45 of our local high school board officials (of 325) made the state tournament list, ten of those work our Catholic middle school games, in other words, almost a quarter of our Catholic middle school officials (10 of 45 total) are state high school tournament officials), and college officials (two), on our "board". The only subvarsity officials that he selects are vetted and show skills that make them very likely to quickly move up the ladder.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 22, 2014 at 01:49pm.
  #63 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
...

2) The training committee tells rookies that they can wear a belt, or not wear a belt. Not only is there no belt ban (a negative statement), but the committee informs the rookies that belts are acceptable (a positive statement). That's the difference between where you officiate, and where I officiate. We tell rookies that they can wear a belt. While your training committee doesn't have a belt ban, I doubt that your training committee makes such a positive statement...
They also should tell rookies that if they go to camps or aspire to be college officials, that belts are frowned upon outside your little corner of Connecticut.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:34pm
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Not dircted directly at any one person in particular, but...

This debate seems to get rehashed very frequently here and there seems to be two camps of thought: the "if its ok with the guy who assigns you then its ok to do it even if thats not what the "official" requirements are" camp, verse the "not going by the book for dress code IS unprofessional because a rule is a rule regardless of what is done, required, allowed by others" camp.

I am guessing that most of us fall into a third group that knows in reality the truth is somewhere in the middle. To get games, you may have to do what an assignor wants even if it wanders over the lines of strict adherence to rules or guidelines BUT for the most part we try do it by the book.

What I find interesting is that in one string there will be multiple comments about how a ref looks is connected to his making a bad call and then in another string to suggest a standard look is more professional brings a wrath upon you, often from the same people. It seems we go from talking about "how a guy is out of shape or wearing white socks or has stripes that are different from the crew" to "how dare you suggest that any of those have any thing to do with how professional someone is". From what I have read here I believe that most of us believe that; 1) how you look does not affect your ability, 2) how you look is a part of how you are judged professionally, and, 3) some sensible flexibilty is necessary.

Billymac is correct to do what he is doing because in Conn. that's what THEY do and JRut is correct that in the rest of the basketball world (where things are done the right way) it is unprofessional, makes you stand out, and should be avoided. I fall more in line with JRut but will also stand behind Billymac and his "when in Rome" flexibility because he might stand out unprofessionally if he didn't and because I work games in different leagues & conferences that have different rules, requirements, and cultures so I occassionally have to adapt how I personally do things. (before some of you jump on that last statement with silly responses asking if I am also willing to kick a rule just to get games, the answer is NO)

In my chapter we are required to wear all black shoes, grey shirts, and beltless pants for all games, with a jacket added during pregame for varsity. There are some who don't always follow this - usually bottom of the barrell guys who get very few games a season or rookies who are quickly corrected by the vets - and it not only affects how you are viewed by others but also your chapter rankings, the number/level of games you get, playoff assignments, etc. In my first year I worked a set of 9th grade & JV games with a very veteran ref. At his insistance, we wore blk/wht the first game and the required grey for the JV because he wanted the JV to feel more special. After the first game, we were met in the locker room by the three guys assigned to varsity and got an ear full about (hemore than I since I was a rooke). He was one of the best refs I worked with and I learned a lot from him that day, including that how you look is important since that guy started getting less games and is no longer with the chapter.
  #65 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 12:38pm
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Beltless In Seattle ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
They also should tell rookies that if they go to camps or aspire to be college officials, that belts are frowned upon outside your little corner of Connecticut.
Our training committee doesn't use the term "frowned up" but it does tell rookie officials that, although belts are allowed, most young officials, especially those that have college aspirations, may wish to choose the beltless option.

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, belts are going the way of the dinosaur. By the way, I was the last basketball official in Connecticut to wear a bow tie while officiating a high school varsity game. It's true. It's true. Maybe I'll take the bow tie out of retirement for my swan song.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by Adam; Sat Mar 22, 2014 at 03:46pm. Reason: oy
  #66 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Don't chase after balls that go out of bounds, or bounce away after a foul, or violation is called, going deep into corners, under bleachers, far away, as in field houses, etc. The kid's can't play without a ball. It will always come back to you. Keep your eyes on the players, not on the bouncing ball.

(This works in theory, but, sometimes, not so in practice. Sometimes you just have to politely ask a player to please go and get the ball.)
This doesn't work so well with "adults" in rec leagues. A couple of times I've asked a player to go grab a ball for me, only to be told, both times, by one of his TEAMMATES that that was MY job. I whacked without hesitation both times.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:14pm
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Theory Versus Reality ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes View Post
This doesn't work so well with "adults" in rec leagues. A couple of times I've asked a player to go grab a ball for me, only to be told, both times, by one of his TEAMMATES that that was MY job. I whacked without hesitation both times.
Over thirty-three years, I've had three different local high school interpreters tell us that the ball always comes back to the official. I want to stand up and scream, "No, it doesn't always come back".

Of course, sometimes the whistle sounds and nobody is in possession: 10-3-5-B: A player shall not delay the game by acts such as: Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle blows. We can ask for help, but, I guess, that we can't require that a player helps us?

Bottom line, try to keep your eyes on the players as much as you possibly can (I'm still refusing to go deep into corners, under bleachers, and far away, and I'm willing to wait a very long time for that ball to come back to me).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Mar 22, 2014 at 02:54pm.
  #68 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Of course, sometimes the whistle sounds and nobody is in possession: 10-3-5-B: A player shall not delay the game by acts such as: Failing when in possession, to immediately pass the ball to the nearer official when a whistle blows. We can ask for help, but, I guess, that we can't require that a player helps us?
Actually, Rule 2-3 does allow us to require that assistance.

I thought there was something in the rule regarding unsporting conduct that something about refusing to follow an instruction given by an official. Apparently I was mixing this up with the football rulebook, which does contain such a statement.

So for basketball, I just hang my hat on Rule 2-3 for this one.
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 02:56pm
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An Official's Best Friend ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes View Post
Actually, Rule 2-3 does allow us to require that assistance.
Ah. Rule 2-3. The plumber's helper (Sorry Freddy) of the basketball officials' world.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
  #70 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 06:56pm
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I am aware that where you work ultimately dictates what you might do. I just feel that I want to look like everyone that does this at the highest level does so that I am not seen as a lesser than official before I get started. And that is why my pants are tailored in a way that they look sharp as well. If someone wants to do something different, that is on them. It is their career. I just know what I am going to do. What you do does not hurt me, it only hurts you or helps you depending on how you look at it.

Peace
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 22, 2014, 07:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
AremRed: "The "deep corner" is not the Lead's area in NFHS/NCAA-M. If the ball is in the corner Lead is usually watching post play or screens right in his area. If the player drives from the deep corner into Lead's area then the Lead can pick that up, but Trail should have that play initially."

I understand that, for 3-man mechanics. And our Assignor emphasizes that we should be more mobile as Lead, even in 3-man mechanics. We still see many officials who set up as Lead within four or five feet of the lane, and never get any wider. So, when the ball is in their PCA, out as wide as the 3-point line, they, in effect, have to turn away from the center of the court.
I should've referenced 2-man Mechanics. I did about 60 games this season, of which 40+ would be considered training/mentoring newer officials, and we do all of those (sub-varsity) games with 2-man mechanics.
It is if it's on your side. 2 man mechanics of course.

Last edited by OKREF; Sat Mar 22, 2014 at 07:19pm.
  #72 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 23, 2014, 06:57am
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Black Is Beautiful, With Just A Little White ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
... it only hurts you or helps you depending on how you look at it.
Since I'm following my local uniform guidelines to the letter, then it can only help me, since it can't hurt me.

I was initially concerned with the small amount of "reflective white" on my new Zigs this season, but the rating committee has approved them for use on our local board. It seems that last season a few officials were rated poorly for "Appearance" because (according to written comments) of the white on the Zigs (all back means all black), so the rating committee put a stop to that this season. Thank God, because if I thought that the Zigs, with a small amount of white, were going to hurt my rating, ranking, and the number, and level of games, that I was assigned, I would have "shelved" them in a New York minute, and my wallet would have been $89.00 lighter. Once I was confident that they were "approved", I bought a second pair. My feet never felt more comfortable while working a basketball game. I feel sorry for you guys that stick to an "all black means all black" local policy, because you either don't know what you're missing (it's like running on air), or you have to get out the black Sharpie. Thirty years ago, I had to put a dab of black paint on the white "spot" on the back of my Spotbilts every few weeks. What a pain. Back then, all black really did mean all black.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 23, 2014 at 07:38am.
  #73 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 23, 2014, 10:48am
AremRed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes View Post
This doesn't work so well with "adults" in rec leagues. A couple of times I've asked a player to go grab a ball for me, only to be told, both times, by one of his TEAMMATES that that was MY job. I whacked without hesitation both times.
Is that really worth a technical? I think I would just laugh and keep waiting until they get me the ball.
  #74 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 23, 2014, 10:51am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Since I'm following my local uniform guidelines to the letter, then it can only help me, since it can't hurt me.
This isn't necessarily true.
  #75 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 23, 2014, 11:04am
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When The Ball Is Dead, Be Alive ...

When a timeout is granted, and there are going to be free throws following timeout, be sure that both officials know who the free throw shooter is. If my partner is granting the timeout request, the first thing that I do, from my position on the free throw line, after he goes back to his position on the jump ball circle, is to say, "Twelve shoots one and one".
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 23, 2014 at 11:08am.
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