The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 01:32am
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Kansas v Texas: Close Block/Charge Play

This play is being discussed in the Facebook group...close play...what say you?

__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 02:08am
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
I have a charge. Not that close, really, just happened quickly. Tie goes to the offense, even when it's not a tie.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 03:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Defender was there. Offense had the ball. No time/distance required. Charnge.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 09:02am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Maybe the official thought the white player had gathered the ball for a try?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 10:32am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
PC. Time & distance is not required since A3 had the ball.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 10:39am
#thereferee99
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 624
Perfect description

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Defender was there. Offense had the ball. No time/distance required. Charnge.
A carnage charge: Charnge!
__________________
-- #thereferee99
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 10:43am
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 View Post
A carnage charge: Charnge!
Now that's funny.

PC. Ship it!

And for anybody wanting to say that time/distance is required here....just please don't.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 10:44am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
100% charge.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 10:51am
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,517
Rule 4-23
ART. 5... Guarding a moving opponent without the ball:
a. Time and distance are factors required to obtain initial legal position.
b. The guard must give the opponent the time and/or distance to avoid contact.
c. The distance need not be more than two strides.

I wouldn't treat the player receiving the ball as "an opponent with the ball", as in Article 4... where time and distance are not factors. By the time he caught and gathered the ball he had no chance to do anything with it (dribble, shoot, pass, or just stop with it), as the defender was less than two steps away.

Perhaps if the defender was within the offensive player's line of sight, then you can say the offensive player had enough of a chance to avoid contact. But since the offensive player was looking back and up at the pass, I would say without reservation that the defender was at fault for the contact.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 10:55am
Esteemed Participant
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 4,775
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Rule 4-23
ART. 5... Guarding a moving opponent without the ball:
a. Time and distance are factors required to obtain initial legal position.
b. The guard must give the opponent the time and/or distance to avoid contact.
c. The distance need not be more than two strides.

I wouldn't treat the player receiving the ball as "an opponent with the ball", as in Article 4... where time and distance are not factors. By the time he caught and gathered the ball he had no chance to do anything with it (dribble, shoot, pass, or just stop with it), as the defender was less than two steps away.

Perhaps if the defender was within the offensive player's line of sight, then you can say the offensive player had enough of a chance to avoid contact. But since the offensive player was looking back and up at the pass, I would say without reservation that the defender was at fault for the contact.
Had the offensive player caught the pass before the contact took place?

He obviously had, so then he had the ball and time and distance are not factors.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 10:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 3,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Rule 4-23
ART. 5... Guarding a moving opponent without the ball:
a. Time and distance are factors required to obtain initial legal position.
b. The guard must give the opponent the time and/or distance to avoid contact.
c. The distance need not be more than two strides.

I wouldn't treat the player receiving the ball as "an opponent with the ball", as in Article 4... where time and distance are not factors. By the time he caught and gathered the ball he had no chance to do anything with it (dribble, shoot, pass, or just stop with it), as the defender was less than two steps away.

Perhaps if the defender was within the offensive player's line of sight, then you can say the offensive player had enough of a chance to avoid contact. But since the offensive player was looking back and up at the pass, I would say without reservation that the defender was at fault for the contact.
So you are saying that you would categorize the player with the ball as an "opponent without the ball". Interesting as with or without the ball is a pretty black or white thing. He either has it or he doesn't. In this case he has it. What does line of sight have to do with anything, I don't think the rule book mentions that exception.
__________________
in OS I trust
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 11:02am
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad View Post
Had the offensive player caught the pass before the contact took place?

He obviously had, so then he had the ball and time and distance are not factors.
Rule 4-12
ART 1... A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or dribbling a live ball.

The player is clearly not dribbling the ball at the time of contact, so would you say he is holding it? I wouldn't. Because when I read the dribbling part of the equation, "holding" tells me the player is standing still with the ball... which the player clearly isn't standing still with the ball.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 11:07am
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Rule 4-12

so would you say he is holding it?
Yes. He firmly possesses it in both of his hands. That's all that is required. You're adding additional criteria that doesn't exist in the rule book.

Like it or not, a player with the ball, no matter how long they have had it, is expected to stop on a dime in this situation.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 11:12am
Stubborn Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Yes. He firmly possesses it in both of his hands. That's all that is required. You're adding additional criteria that doesn't exist in the rule book.

Like it or not, a player with the ball, no matter how long they have had it, is expected to stop on a dime in this situation.
The offensive player had no chance to catch that ball, which he is entitled to provided he doesn't push another player to do so, and avoid contact.

On the other hand, the defender had more than enough opportunity to set himself up in a way to avoid a collision.

I know the rule book doesn't use fairness, but if I can interpret a rule in a such a way to make things fair... I will.

PS... this is why I said what I did about the rule book being set-up to favor the defense. Calling a PC foul on the guy catching the ball is not fair at all. He had no chance to avoid the contact. That is, unless you say he shouldn't be allowed to catch that ball in the first place.

Last edited by BryanV21; Mon Feb 03, 2014 at 11:17am.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 03, 2014, 11:18am
beware big brother
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: illinois
Posts: 994
Quote:
Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I wouldn't treat the player receiving the ball as "an opponent with the ball", as in Article 4... where time and distance are not factors. By the time he caught and gathered the ball he had no chance to do anything with it (dribble, shoot, pass, or just stop with it), as the defender was less than two steps away.

Perhaps if the defender was within the offensive player's line of sight, then you can say the offensive player had enough of a chance to avoid contact. But since the offensive player was looking back and up at the pass, I would say without reservation that the defender was at fault for the contact.
I have a feeling you have a hard time getting many of these block/charge plays correct in your games. The last two plays you have debated the calls based on rules interpretations that are clearly wrong. The Texas player has the ball, time and distance are irrelevant, it is that simple. I think you are interpreting rules through the prism of your biased belief that the rules favor the defensive player.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SC Top 10 Play--Block, Charge, No Call APG Basketball 17 Mon Dec 23, 2013 03:23pm
Block/Charge Play stiffler3492 Basketball 38 Thu Dec 13, 2012 09:05am
Block/Charge RA Play: Off Rebound APG Basketball 76 Thu May 10, 2012 05:49pm
Block/Charge: RA Play APG Basketball 21 Mon May 07, 2012 03:02pm
Charge and a block on the same play Coach Bill Basketball 33 Thu Jan 24, 2008 04:16pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1