Brawl in SC high school game

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Gaffney HS beats Boiling Springs in OT with just 3 players after bench clearing fight | Ballislife.com

After sorting it all out, Gaffney had four eligible players remaining and Boiling Springs had five. Gaffney won in OT with only three players as one had fouled out.

Very difficult situation for officials. I don't see how it's possible to obtain all necessary information about every player's, every coach's involvement from both teams to enforce the NFHS fight rule when a scum like this breaks out.

Thoughts?

Proposal: Increase the severity of the penalty on the head coach (direct technical) for bench personnel entering the floor but not participating. Eliminate any flagrant penalty on bench personnel entering (but not participating) thereby eliminating the possibility of inaccurate numbers and incorrect penalties and ensuring resumption of the game in a timely manner with non-fighting team members still eligible to play.
Instead, assess one bench technical similar to Casebook 10.4.4B

Current Example: While players A1 and B1 are fighting, Team A actually has 7 bench personnel enter the floor (dnp) but; to the best of their knowledge, the officials count only 5. Team B has 6 bench personnel enter (dnp) and the officials correctly count all 6. Under current rules the 11 bench personnel (should have been 13) receive flagrant technical fouls (even though they had the good sense not to participate in the fight) and are disqualified. Both head coaches merely receive an indirect technical foul (even though the rulebook, 10-4, clearly states the head coach is responsible for his/her bench personnel). Team A has 5 fouls added to its team total (should have been 7) and they are awarded 2 free throws (should not have been awarded any). Team B has 6 fouls correctly added to its team total and should have been awarded 2 free throws (were awarded none). Team A will be awarded the ball but it should be given to Team B.

Using Proposed Revision: In the above situation, head coaches would be held responsible if any number of bench personnel enters the floor by being assessed a direct technical foul. No bench personnel are penalized or disqualified since they did not fight and because of the difficult challenge officials must face in getting accurate counts and correct penalties. Instead, one technical is assessed to the bench. No free throws would be awarded since the bench technicals and direct technical fouls offset. Only two fouls would have to be added to each team’s total. Play will resume based on the penalties of the players fighting on the court. If one team had no bench personnel enter the floor, they would receive a total of four free throws for the opposing bench technical and the direct technical on the opposing coach plus the ball for a division line throw-in or combine each team’s total penalties and if they offset go to POI or if there is a difference, award FT’s and the ball based on that.

That's as far as I've gotten. Your turn.

[j51969]

As a parent I definitely feel the adults need to be held more accountable for the actions of their students (parents, coaches, AD’s, and Admin). You are either a leader or you’re not. Sometimes tough love is the best medicine and sends the right message. Suspensions for coaches and players seem almost an afterthought. Many times as soon as you hear who one, or both of the schools are you are not even surprised. Post season suspensions should be levied for multiple game offenses.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Proposal: Increase the severity of the penalty on the head coach (direct technical) for bench personnel entering the floor but not participating. Eliminate any flagrant penalty on bench personnel entering (but not participating) thereby eliminating the possibility of inaccurate numbers and incorrect penalties and ensuring resumption of the game in a timely manner with non-fighting team members still eligible to play.
Instead, assess one bench technical similar to Casebook 10.4.4B

Current Example: While players A1 and B1 are fighting, Team A actually has 7 bench personnel enter the floor (dnp) but; to the best of their knowledge, the officials count only 5. Team B has 6 bench personnel enter (dnp) and the officials correctly count all 6. Under current rules the 11 bench personnel (should have been 13) receive flagrant technical fouls (even though they had the good sense not to participate in the fight) and are disqualified. Both head coaches merely receive an indirect technical foul (even though the rulebook, 10-4, clearly states the head coach is responsible for his/her bench personnel). Team A has 5 fouls added to its team total (should have been 7) and they are awarded 2 free throws (should not have been awarded any). Team B has 6 fouls correctly added to its team total and should have been awarded 2 free throws (were awarded none). Team A will be awarded the ball but it should be given to Team B.

Using Proposed Revision: In the above situation, head coaches would be held responsible if any number of bench personnel enters the floor by being assessed a direct technical foul. No bench personnel are penalized or disqualified since they did not fight and because of the difficult challenge officials must face in getting accurate counts and correct penalties. Instead, one technical is assessed to the bench. No free throws would be awarded since the bench technicals and direct technical fouls offset. Only two fouls would have to be added to each team’s total. Play will resume based on the penalties of the players fighting on the court. If one team had no bench personnel enter the floor, they would receive a total of four free throws for the opposing bench technical and the direct technical on the opposing coach plus the ball for a division line throw-in or combine each team’s total penalties and if they offset go to POI or if there is a difference, award FT’s and the ball based on that.

That's as far as I've gotten. Your turn.

I would rather go the other way.

Anyone leaving the bench, other than the HC, is immediately assessed a flagrant technical and ejected from the game. Additionally, each is ineligible to participate for the greater of the next 5 games played by the school or until they have exhausted their high school eligibility. If the ineligible person is normally compensated for their participation in games they will not be paid while ineligible.

Bet every HC will figure out a way to keep people off the floor if a fight starts.

[Nevadaref]

NV has a state rule that if three or more people leave the bench that team forfeits. If both teams do so, then the game becomes a double-forfeit. Takes care of having to continue the contest with only a few players.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

NV has a state rule that if three or more people leave the bench that team forfeits. If both teams do so, then the game becomes a double-forfeit. Takes care of having to continue the contest with only a few players.

+1 this makes sense

The house always wins!

[twocentsworth]

the brief video highlights confirmed my theory that 99% of problems happen in basketball games because officials DON'T BLOW THE WHISTLE ENOUGH!

to come out of that play w/ only a jump ball tells me that the officiating crew should bare some responsibility for what happened......

fights don't just "happen all of a sudden".

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

the brief video highlights confirmed my theory that 99% of problems happen in basketball games because officials DON'T BLOW THE WHISTLE ENOUGH!

to come out of that play w/ only a jump ball tells me that the officiating crew should bare some responsibility for what happened......

fights don't just "happen all of a sudden".

While this is true...you can still get blindsided. I was calling a select tournament a few years back. Second time down the floor B1 gets the arm of A1 while going up for a shot. Partner blows the whistle and as I start to move to administer the free-throws A1 turns and drills B1. I am only about 4 steps away and before I get there B1 has hit back and B2 takes a swing at A1 and misses.

We toss all three and after the game are talking about what happened and the site manager (who we were visiting with before the game started) who said "Yea, those two have been heading that way all day. Carry-over from last week. I noticed his brother stepped in as well." I just looked at the guy and said "You didn't think that would be useful information for us to have when the game started?" He just shrugged and walked away.

Now, the situation in the video was toward the end so the crew probably could have down more or should have been prepared/watching. But things can come out of the blue.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

the brief video highlights confirmed my theory that 99% of problems happen in basketball games because officials DON'T BLOW THE WHISTLE ENOUGH!

to come out of that play w/ only a jump ball tells me that the officiating crew should bare some responsibility for what happened......

fights don't just "happen all of a sudden".

You were able to extropolate the highlights from one game to confirm a theory about 99% of basketball games?

That's impressive.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

the brief video highlights confirmed my theory that 99% of problems happen in basketball games because officials DON'T BLOW THE WHISTLE ENOUGH!

The only thing worse than an official who doesn't blow his whistle enough is one who blows it too much.