Brawl in SC high school game

[bballref3966]

Gaffney HS beats Boiling Springs in OT with just 3 players after bench clearing fight | Ballislife.com

After sorting it all out, Gaffney had four eligible players remaining and Boiling Springs had five. Gaffney won in OT with only three players as one had fouled out.

Very difficult situation for officials. I don't see how it's possible to obtain all necessary information about every player's, every coach's involvement from both teams to enforce the NFHS fight rule when a scum like this breaks out.

Thoughts?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Gaffney HS beats Boiling Springs in OT with just 3 players after bench clearing fight | Ballislife.com

After sorting it all out, Gaffney had four eligible players remaining and Boiling Springs had five. Gaffney won in OT with only three players as one had fouled out.

Very difficult situation for officials. I don't see how it's possible to obtain all necessary information about every player's, every coach's involvement from both teams to enforce the NFHS fight rule when a scum like this breaks out.

Thoughts?

It isn't, not without replay equipment -- and probably not even then.

Top of the list, in my opinion, is noting who came off the bench and whether they participated or not. Also who on the court participated in the fight. Still, it's tough to make sure you got every flagrant technical that you should get.

Anyone who doesn't know the fight rules well (who gets flagrant technicals, which ones count as indirects against the head coach, how many free throws are shot) should take the time to learn them before they have a fight. You may never need this knowledge, but if you have a fight it's going to be bad if you screw that piece up.

[MathReferee]

Gaffney/B. Springs Game Marred By Melee - WSPA

Something I wish I am never a part of. Impossible to catch everyone. #4 for the black team was clearly throwing punches during the melee and stayed in the game. Knowing that is impossible to catch everyone, what order do you want to make sure you get them right? Fighting participants, bench personnel that came onto the floor, etc.?

Gaffney/B. Springs Game Marred By Melee - WSPA

Further video...

[zm1283]

On a side note, I actually really like those South Carolina officials' shirts. The black on the shoulders looks sharp. If I made the rules, we would wear the NBA style gray and black shirts. Stripes look goofy.

[Sharpshooternes]

How in the world miss the toss of the white player by black#5? It looks like he didn't even see it. Or the foul on the shot before that?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Very difficult situation for officials. I don't see how it's possible to obtain all necessary information about every player ...

Agree that in most cases it would be very difficult, however, in this specific case, it appears that everybody came off both benches, so it was a little easier to figure out than your "garden variety" fight.

[jeremy341a]

Would anyone consider the original actions, then going chest to chest, by #5 and #11 taunting which caused a fight and therefore they would be dqed also? #5 even gave a little shoulder bump in there.

[j51969]

I wonder if at any time during the sorting out process the adminstrators of either school (coaches, school admin) ever considered forfeiting the game. Giving both schools a loss and moving on. With as few people that were left to participate for each school what was gained by continuing? I doubt any life lessons were learned from finishing the game (other than sometimes your teammates/friends can be douche bags). Unfair or not we are sometimes affected by the actions of others, and this game was not going to alter the balance of power in the universe.

At no point am I suggesting the officials should have made this decision. Unless they thought their safety ,or that of the players was in jeopardy. They get paid to officiate…

Thoughts….

[voiceoflg]

There was one in Georgia as well.

This one was stopped by the officials with 3:29 left in the game.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Gaffney HS beats Boiling Springs in OT with just 3 players after bench clearing fight | Ballislife.com

After sorting it all out, Gaffney had four eligible players remaining and Boiling Springs had five. Gaffney won in OT with only three players as one had fouled out.

Very difficult situation for officials. I don't see how it's possible to obtain all necessary information about every player's, every coach's involvement from both teams to enforce the NFHS fight rule when a scum like this breaks out.

Thoughts?

Proposal: Increase the severity of the penalty on the head coach (direct technical) for bench personnel entering the floor but not participating. Eliminate any flagrant penalty on bench personnel entering (but not participating) thereby eliminating the possibility of inaccurate numbers and incorrect penalties and ensuring resumption of the game in a timely manner with non-fighting team members still eligible to play.
Instead, assess one bench technical similar to Casebook 10.4.4B

Current Example: While players A1 and B1 are fighting, Team A actually has 7 bench personnel enter the floor (dnp) but; to the best of their knowledge, the officials count only 5. Team B has 6 bench personnel enter (dnp) and the officials correctly count all 6. Under current rules the 11 bench personnel (should have been 13) receive flagrant technical fouls (even though they had the good sense not to participate in the fight) and are disqualified. Both head coaches merely receive an indirect technical foul (even though the rulebook, 10-4, clearly states the head coach is responsible for his/her bench personnel). Team A has 5 fouls added to its team total (should have been 7) and they are awarded 2 free throws (should not have been awarded any). Team B has 6 fouls correctly added to its team total and should have been awarded 2 free throws (were awarded none). Team A will be awarded the ball but it should be given to Team B.

Using Proposed Revision: In the above situation, head coaches would be held responsible if any number of bench personnel enters the floor by being assessed a direct technical foul. No bench personnel are penalized or disqualified since they did not fight and because of the difficult challenge officials must face in getting accurate counts and correct penalties. Instead, one technical is assessed to the bench. No free throws would be awarded since the bench technicals and direct technical fouls offset. Only two fouls would have to be added to each team’s total. Play will resume based on the penalties of the players fighting on the court. If one team had no bench personnel enter the floor, they would receive a total of four free throws for the opposing bench technical and the direct technical on the opposing coach plus the ball for a division line throw-in or combine each team’s total penalties and if they offset go to POI or if there is a difference, award FT’s and the ball based on that.

That's as far as I've gotten. Your turn.

[j51969]

As a parent I definitely feel the adults need to be held more accountable for the actions of their students (parents, coaches, AD’s, and Admin). You are either a leader or you’re not. Sometimes tough love is the best medicine and sends the right message. Suspensions for coaches and players seem almost an afterthought. Many times as soon as you hear who one, or both of the schools are you are not even surprised. Post season suspensions should be levied for multiple game offenses.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Proposal: Increase the severity of the penalty on the head coach (direct technical) for bench personnel entering the floor but not participating. Eliminate any flagrant penalty on bench personnel entering (but not participating) thereby eliminating the possibility of inaccurate numbers and incorrect penalties and ensuring resumption of the game in a timely manner with non-fighting team members still eligible to play.
Instead, assess one bench technical similar to Casebook 10.4.4B

Current Example: While players A1 and B1 are fighting, Team A actually has 7 bench personnel enter the floor (dnp) but; to the best of their knowledge, the officials count only 5. Team B has 6 bench personnel enter (dnp) and the officials correctly count all 6. Under current rules the 11 bench personnel (should have been 13) receive flagrant technical fouls (even though they had the good sense not to participate in the fight) and are disqualified. Both head coaches merely receive an indirect technical foul (even though the rulebook, 10-4, clearly states the head coach is responsible for his/her bench personnel). Team A has 5 fouls added to its team total (should have been 7) and they are awarded 2 free throws (should not have been awarded any). Team B has 6 fouls correctly added to its team total and should have been awarded 2 free throws (were awarded none). Team A will be awarded the ball but it should be given to Team B.

Using Proposed Revision: In the above situation, head coaches would be held responsible if any number of bench personnel enters the floor by being assessed a direct technical foul. No bench personnel are penalized or disqualified since they did not fight and because of the difficult challenge officials must face in getting accurate counts and correct penalties. Instead, one technical is assessed to the bench. No free throws would be awarded since the bench technicals and direct technical fouls offset. Only two fouls would have to be added to each team’s total. Play will resume based on the penalties of the players fighting on the court. If one team had no bench personnel enter the floor, they would receive a total of four free throws for the opposing bench technical and the direct technical on the opposing coach plus the ball for a division line throw-in or combine each team’s total penalties and if they offset go to POI or if there is a difference, award FT’s and the ball based on that.

That's as far as I've gotten. Your turn.

I would rather go the other way.

Anyone leaving the bench, other than the HC, is immediately assessed a flagrant technical and ejected from the game. Additionally, each is ineligible to participate for the greater of the next 5 games played by the school or until they have exhausted their high school eligibility. If the ineligible person is normally compensated for their participation in games they will not be paid while ineligible.

Bet every HC will figure out a way to keep people off the floor if a fight starts.

[Nevadaref]

NV has a state rule that if three or more people leave the bench that team forfeits. If both teams do so, then the game becomes a double-forfeit. Takes care of having to continue the contest with only a few players.

[j51969]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

NV has a state rule that if three or more people leave the bench that team forfeits. If both teams do so, then the game becomes a double-forfeit. Takes care of having to continue the contest with only a few players.

+1 this makes sense

The house always wins!

[twocentsworth]

the brief video highlights confirmed my theory that 99% of problems happen in basketball games because officials DON'T BLOW THE WHISTLE ENOUGH!

to come out of that play w/ only a jump ball tells me that the officiating crew should bare some responsibility for what happened......

fights don't just "happen all of a sudden".