Table for 2 Please!

[deecee]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

So far this season, I have had more table issues than in years past. I had 2 correctable errors in the same week when I normally would get one all season!

Both involved the score board showing 7 fouls and the player shooting the 1+1 and then the table hitting the horn saying both books only show 6 team fouls. This all happened before the next dead ball so correctable.

A weak table can make the crew look bad and lead to discussions and shot clock corrections etc...all of which makes the game more challenging to work

Any suggestions on handling the table better?

In my 11 years I've only had 2. Some tables may be less experienced than others but in my experience all that means is more "management" from the officials.

I ask the shot clock operator one question, "does the shot clock reset on a jump ball?" depending on their answer and how they answer I can tell their level of experience and knowledge. Other than that, there is NO amount of talking you can do to the table, or "teaching", that will make much of a difference in your game.

I ask the book one favor, to verbally let us know when a team reaches 5 and 6 team fouls. 99.8% of the time the will get one of these right .

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by deecee

In my 11 years I've only had 2. Some tables may be less experienced than others but in my experience all that means is more "management" from the officials.

I ask the shot clock operator one question, "does the shot clock reset on a jump ball?" depending on their answer and how they answer I can tell their level of experience and knowledge. Other than that, there is NO amount of talking you can do to the table, or "teaching", that will make much of a difference in your game.

I ask the book one favor, to verbally let us know when a team reaches 5 and 6 team fouls. 99.8% of the time the will get one of these right .

Is your answer your looking for from the operator "is this a trick question? "

[Zoochy]

Table problems... Don't get me started. At least 1 per week when the timer does not start the clock. I try not to yell, "Start Clock". I just keep a count in my head and when it is appropriate, then I blow the whistle and have them take time off. Geeez
Last night was the worst. After the 1st quarter the scorekeepers spend at least 10 minutes trying to get all the score book corrected. I tried to say that the book at the table was the official book. Make the adjustment in the secondary book and more on.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

OK here are my rules for scorekeeping-I am probably one of the more tenured scorekeepers in my section,having served at my school as the full time varsity scorekeeper since '06-'07.

*Verbal notification-warn officials after reporting the 6th and 9th fouls that the next foul brings about the bonus/double bonus.
Ex-"Bonus on the next Tom"

*Timeout notification-Notify officials when the following occurs:
A.Team has used their final timeout of that type (indicate count)
Ex-"Final full for white Tim."

B.When both teams have exhausted the same kind of timeout.
Ex-White uses a :30 with 2:20 in the 4th.It is the last :30 for both sides."Final :30 for white Bob.All timeouts are now fulls (indicate count).

C.Two point shot where shooters foot is on the line-When I have a situation where the shooter's foot is on the line and the official marks it with 2 fingers to their waist I yell "Two" "Two" for both the other scorebook and timer to hear.

D.If handling multiple games do as much prep as you can before your first game of the day.

E.Keep a running audit of the fouls on the bottom of the book.We use the mark V books-on the bottom you have no room for this so when I cross off the team foul I mark the jersey # of the player committing said foul.

F.When a timeout is called with a side having only one type left signal the type remaining before the official goes to the huddle to ask the coach.Signal that a team has used their final timeout with a closed fist (left hand indicates the home team is out,right hand indicates visiting team is out) and verbally warn.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

OK here are my rules for scorekeeping-I am probably one of the more tenured scorekeepers in my section,having served at my school as the full time varsity scorekeeper since '06-'07.

*Verbal notification-warn officials after reporting the 6th and 9th fouls that the next foul brings about the bonus/double bonus.
Ex-"Bonus on the next Tom"

*Timeout notification-Notify officials when the following occurs:
A.Team has used their final timeout of that type (indicate count)
Ex-"Final full for white Tim."

B.When both teams have exhausted the same kind of timeout.
Ex-White uses a :30 with 2:20 in the 4th.It is the last :30 for both sides."Final :30 for white Bob.All timeouts are now fulls (indicate count).

C.Two point shot where shooters foot is on the line-When I have a situation where the shooter's foot is on the line and the official marks it with 2 fingers to their waist I yell "Two" "Two" for both the other scorebook and timer to hear.

D.If handling multiple games do as much prep as you can before your first game of the day.

E.Keep a running audit of the fouls on the bottom of the book.We use the mark V books-on the bottom you have no room for this so when I cross off the team foul I mark the jersey # of the player committing said foul.

F.When a timeout is called with a side having only one type left signal the type remaining before the official goes to the huddle to ask the coach.Signal that a team has used their final timeout with a closed fist (left hand indicates the home team is out,right hand indicates visiting team is out) and verbally warn.

Of the things that you do F is the only thing that I would want from a scorer.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

Is your answer your looking for from the operator "is this a trick question? "

No, its a great question to ask a shot clock operator.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

No, its a great question to ask a shot clock operator.

No, it's a terrible question. The shot clock has nothing to do with the jump ball.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Nevada-
This year I am handling jv boys,varsity girls,and varsity boys books.Doing the prep work early means I can say to my varsity crew that starters & rosters are in well before the start of warm-ups for each game.Also gives me a chance to eat dinner

Here I think all of our board wants the timeout count in late game situations so they can tell the coaches.

The_Rookie-my 8th year as an official scorer and have never been a part of a CE situation (knock on wood). I have however had two book T's in the last 3 years involving number changes not communicated to me by coaches.

Nevada-you're not a fan of the verbal warning on fouls 6 & 9? Our people love it when the scorer does this.I think it shows that the scorer is engaged in the game in front of them and not off in la la land staring into the ceiling.

[stiffler3492]

I don't think it's possible to communicate the foul situation enough. Obviously, good officials know when they should grab shooters, but having the table be in sync with us is comforting.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Nevada-
This year I am handling jv boys,varsity girls,and varsity boys books.Doing the prep work early means I can say to my varsity crew that starters & rosters are in well before the start of warm-ups for each game.Also gives me a chance to eat dinner

So from where do you obtain this information so far in advance? How do you know that it is accurate if it doesn't come from a team representative? That would be my concern with you attempting to be prepared and complete the book work early. Otherwise, I admire your effort.

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Here I think all of our board wants the timeout count in late game situations so they can tell the coaches.

I believe that this is both unnecessary and potentially problematic. I actually track the time-outs in my head during a game or some locations post this info (TOL) on the scoreboard. I understand the value of having awareness of the time-out situation, but it cannot change the official granting a request when properly made. Informing the coaches of how many they have left is not a good practice as it can only lead to a problem when incorrect information is passed. What a mess when the coach who was just told that he had one TO left makes the request and the official grants it only to be informed that the team really was out! The officials should stick to the rule and only inform the team when it uses its last time-out.

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

The_Rookie-my 8th year as an official scorer and have never been a part of a CE situation (knock on wood). I have however had two book T's in the last 3 years involving number changes not communicated to me by coaches.

So I must ask if this has to do with your early prep work and the source of your information on a team's names and numbers. Btw it is still a T to change a number, even if the coach informs the scorer, if it is after the 10-minute mark, unless there is some circumstance such as a torn or bloody jersey which allows for it. I'm sure that you know that.

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Nevada-you're not a fan of the verbal warning on fouls 6 & 9? Our people love it when the scorer does this.I think it shows that the scorer is engaged in the game in front of them and not off in la la land staring into the ceiling.

Depends upon exactly what the scorer says, but in general in not a fan or that practice. I can see for myself on the scoreboard that it is team foul six or nine. I don't like it when partners, trying to be helpful, signal 1-1 on the next one as I prepare to administer a throw-in or the first of two FTs for a shooting foul. That is confusing and makes me pause and check the foul count before continuing.
I would much rather my partner either wait until the next dead ball or say "that's six [nine]" than "1-1 down here" or "1-1 on this end" as most people don't even state "next time." So perhaps a scorer saying "that's six" or "that's nine" could be helpful, but most gyms have a PA announcer say that anyway.

No offense intended, but sometimes less is more.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Nevada-one of those Ts was a kid left his regular jersey at home.Coaches grabbed a spare from the uniform room and failed to report the change.At the first dead ball the kid checked in and I had no choice but to report it.During the regular season I keep rosters in a notebook obtained by maxpreps.First thing I do when the varsity coaches arrive is hand them a copy of their roster as submitted and ask them to do the following-
A.Mark the starters
B.Verify/Correct #s or player names list and make any additions (if necessary)

The second one was during a tournament situation where a kid was wearing #45 the first two days but wore #44 the last day.Coach (who was the school's AD,forced to take over coaching duties 2 weeks prior) forgot to inform me as did his scorer.In our tournament (where this occurred) we have a program with all the names and numbers that after the first day we expect coaches to inform us of any corrections.Usually the only thing I ask the coaches is "Same starters as yesterday?" If a school played musical numbers on me I will ask the coach to verify numbers.

My warning is pretty simple for fouls 6/9-"Bonus/Double Bonus on the next (insert official's name here)"

For timeout count I've stopped counting it all the way down and just notified when last 30 or full is used or given count when asked.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No, it's a terrible question. The shot clock has nothing to do with the jump ball.

You are right that the shot clock has nothing to do with a jump ball. But the shot clock operators answer to the question is an indicator of their knowledge of when to reset. Did you even read the question and the reasoning behind it?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by deecee

You are right that the shot clock has nothing to do with a jump ball. But the shot clock operators answer to the question is an indicator of their knowledge of when to reset. Did you even read the question and the reasoning behind it?

Yep, and sadly, I understand the question much better than you do. Since you clearly haven't grasped the point that I or Sniper were making with our previous posts, I'm going to spell it out for you.

Asking the shot clock operator about the JUMP ball is silly. What would be productive would be to inquire about a reset on a HELD ball. Your lack of precision in rules book terminology is sloppy and alters the meaning of the question.