Lack of effort

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Catch him before Sunday night's NFC conference championship game, b/c he might not be in a good mood after that.

49'ers fan, huh?!!?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

I was watching a softball game my 9-year-old daughter was playing last year.

The "umpire" was calling pitches more than a foot off the plate strikes. It was everything I could do not to say something. I went for a walk, instead. I mean, there was no way she could even *REACH* those pitches.

This year, I'm the team's coach. We'll see how this goes.

I get that I'm getting the bottom of the barrel or the newest umpires, BTW. I'm prepared for that.

Those were strikes compared to the ones I was seeing when my duaghter played around age 10-12. Consistently, and in more than one game, the umpire was calling strikes on balls that bounced in the dirt before reaching the plate.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I wouldn't advise attempting to tell a referee doing an 8th grade game anything about the rules.
I'll have more to post on this whole situation later.

I guess I'm biased on my experiences. In my experience, the official described in the post (who doesn't understand the 3 second rule among other things) clearly isn't someone who would be working at the HS level. Many youth leagues hire local kids/teenagers and "train them" as best they can. This is the situation I am envisioning. Many of the officials just flat out don't know the rules at times.

I'd be curious to hear some of the arguements against this approach.

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I guess I'm biased on my experiences. In my experience, the official described in the post (who doesn't understand the 3 second rule among other things) clearly isn't someone who would be working at the HS level. Many youth leagues hire local kids/teenagers and "train them" as best they can. This is the situation I am envisioning. Many of the officials just flat out don't know the rules at times.

I'd be curious to hear some of the arguements against this approach.

You are the coach this game, not the assignor or the clinician. If you want to improve the officiating at this level, take over as the assignor or offer to run clinics.

I don't believe that during a game is the time to "teach" officials or explain rules to them. The one time I coached a rec program and saw weak officials, I asked them only to blow the whistle loud and tell the kids what the call was. I accepted all other officiating weaknesses, much as they accepted all my coaching weaknesses.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by BayStateRef

You are the coach this game, not the assignor or the clinician. If you want to improve the officiating at this level, take over as the assignor or offer to run clinics.

I don't believe that during a game is the time to "teach" officials or explain rules to them. The one time I coached a rec program and saw weak officials, I asked them only to blow the whistle loud and tell the kids what the call was. I accepted all other officiating weaknesses, much as they accepted all my coaching weaknesses.

I can see that, however, just to be clear, if I'm the coach, I would not be doing this so much to teach, but to help my team. If I thought that my team was being put at a disadvantage because the official was applying the rule incorrectly, I would be looking for a way to help the official understand the rule. I'm of the thinking that in this case, the official is likely a bit unsure of themselves so rather than publically voice my disagreement, I think I'd have better luck discretely discussing during a timeout. Again, I understand how this wouldn't be appropriate in many circumstances

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I can see that, however, just to be clear, if I'm the coach, I would not be doing this so much to teach, but to help my team. If I thought that my team was being put at a disadvantage because the official was applying the rule incorrectly, I would be looking for a way to help the official understand the rule. I'm of the thinking that in this case, the official is likely a bit unsure of themselves so rather than publically voice my disagreement, I think I'd have better luck discretely discussing during a timeout. Again, I understand how this wouldn't be appropriate in many circumstances

And you really think your comments help? They either know the rule or they don't. What you say is not going to change that fact. I never listen to coaches about anything officiating related and really do not listen when someone tells me they are an official.

Peace

[BayStateRef]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

If I thought that my team was being put at a disadvantage because the official was applying the rule incorrectly, I would be looking for a way to help the official understand the rule.

Shame on you (and any other official) for thinking this and double shame on you for putting it in writing.

If I were the official in your game, you would have a very, very short leash. You would get exactly one chance to tell me that (or anything else about the rules or my judgment), because I would then politely and clearly tell you that is the last time you will do that without penalty.

I do not allow rec (and other youth coaches) to offer any "help" in my officiating.

[rockyroad]

First, let's remember that we are reading only the coach's side of this situation. I would love to hear the officials side. (Not that coaches ever embellish tales of our unprofessionalism )

Second - a Coach trying to "educate" an official about rules during a game is never going to work. Perfect example from this past Saturday...JC Coach only has 6 players. One fouls out...another player tells Coach "I really need a sub, I need a break." Coach wants to put DQ'd player back into game and proceeds to tell me that he can at the cost of a T, and then tells me that I don't know the rules as well as he does when I won't allow him to do that. So do any of us really truly listen to a Coach who tries to tell us what the rules are???

[deecee]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

First, let's remember that we are reading only the coach's side of this situation. I would love to hear the officials side. (Not that coaches ever embellish tales of our unprofessionalism )

Second - a Coach trying to "educate" an official about rules during a game is never going to work. Perfect example from this past Saturday...JC Coach only has 6 players. One fouls out...another player tells Coach "I really need a sub, I need a break." Coach wants to put DQ'd player back into game and proceeds to tell me that he can at the cost of a T, and then tells me that I don't know the rules as well as he does when I won't allow him to do that. So do any of us really truly listen to a Coach who tries to tell us what the rules are???

With coaches the rules always seem to bend in their favor for whatever action they may want at any specified time.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I can see that, however, just to be clear, if I'm the coach, I would not be doing this so much to teach, but to help my team. If I thought that my team was being put at a disadvantage because the official was applying the rule incorrectly, I would be looking for a way to help the official understand the rule. I'm of the thinking that in this case, the official is likely a bit unsure of themselves so rather than publically voice my disagreement, I think I'd have better luck discretely discussing during a timeout. Again, I understand how this wouldn't be appropriate in many circumstances

99.9% of the time when a coach tries to explain the rule, the coach is wrong. In the .1%, the official will still think you are wrong, and will think you are an @$$ for even trying to bring it up.

[stick]

I got my start doing varsity hs basketball from working a middle school game. Apparently the main assigner was in attendance watching his son play at a middle school game I was working. He got my number and called me up the next day and wanted to know if I would work with him in a varsity game the next night. Why he picked me is still a mystery to this day. Back then varsity was two man but the lesson is you never know who might be watching you officiate.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by stick

I got my start doing varsity hs basketball from working a middle school game. Apparently the main assigner was in attendance watching his son play at a middle school game I was working. He got my number and called me up the next day and wanted to know if I would work with him in a varsity game the next night. Back then varsity was two man but the lesson is you never know who might be watching you officiate.

Jerry Markbreit tells a story about how he worked some nothing football game in the worst weather imaginable -- rain, wind, etc. and treated it like it was the Super Bowl. The right person saw him that day and launched his career that took him to the top of the Big 10 and the NFL.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

$15? I couldn't imagine leaving the house for $15 a game. They fill slots paying that little?

They do here, too. Too bad, I wouldn't mind working those games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Adam

They do here, too. Too bad, I wouldn't mind working those games.

My minimum is $25 and I'll do that once or twice a year. And I'll do it if I can have exactly 4 games.

(And yes, if I'm working weekend rec ball, it's *all* about the Benjamin. Or I'm at a camp.)

[JetMetFan]

*In terms of the coach's side of the story being biased: Normally I'm inclined to agree but the fact he's a former official and he said his kids got away with murder on a few calls leads me to believe he's not far from the truth. I base that on the following...

*A partner in one my GV games last week...
- Walked into the gym dressed in his pre-game jacket and game pants. Yes, he was wearing a belt.
- Used his cell phone as we watched pre-game warmups. Twice.
- Used a pink whistle. He said it's a tribute to his mother, which I get, but we have *do* have guidelines.
- Used an unauthorized shirt.
- Ran fewer than ten times during the entire game by my estimate.
- During the last six minutes of the game wouldn't switch. If I was the L and had a foul he just relayed my calls to the table (we use NCAAW mechanics so we don't have a reporting spot). Normally I just force guys to switch but when he started inbounding the ball as I walked towards him I was kind of stuck.
- Many times he either walked - with his back to the play - or backpedaled to the L position in transition.

Are our assignors aware? Yes, but he still gets work. It's the second time he's been my partner this season. He also assigns rec ball. Tons of it.

*Last but not least, you need to come work in the NY/NY Metro area if you want decent pay for rec ball. $40-50 is the going rate. As far as I'm concerned that's still too low.