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Old Fri Sep 12, 2003, 09:20am
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I have called high school ball for years and always thought that I knew how to judge “ordinary effort” for an IF. After seeing the ASA interpretations over on Eteamz recently I am not so sure.

I would judge an IF based on it’s height, speed, and projected landing point. I didn’t need any fielders; I could put them all in the parking lot. All I needed to know was their skill level. The little blooper that will land quickly between pitcher and home is not an IF, but if it goes a little higher and will land in the same spot, but later, possibly is an IF. The blooper that is going to drop over second base probably is not an IF for 12U Rec ball, but could be for NCAA even if it will land several feet into the outfield.

However, the ASA position is, in addition to all of above, that I actually need a fielder there under the ball to catch it. (The situation was a fly ball to F4’s area, but F4 had rotated to 1B and could not get back.) So your position is that it would have required extraordinary effort of the part of F4 to get back, or F1, F3, F6, or F8 to make the catch – thus no IF call.

Now this opens up all sorts of possibilities for vacant areas on the infield – fielders moving before the pitch, on the pitch, on the hit. Charging the plate, moving to a base, going the wrong way, misjudging the ball, the wind carrying the ball away from a fielder. We are required to make the IF decision and verbalize the call when the ball is at its apex. Do we also have to look around to see if a fielder may or may not be where the ball falls?

This interpretation seems to come from this ASA sentence (not in NFHS) in the IF definition: “The infield fly is ruled when the ball reaches the highest point based on the position of the closest infielder regardless of who makes the play.”

So, in the scenario described above, we are supposed to see the ball at its apex, determine that F4 is buried at first, decide that F6 can’t get there, and don’t believe that F9 is fast enough to make the catch – thus no call. And then F9 fields the ball on one hop and has an easy DP at 3B and 2B! Just what we were supposed to prevent from happening.

If the ball is in the air in the infield then we need to protect the runners that are trapped at their base. If we are going to error, then I think we should error on the side of calling the IF. If we call IF and the ball drops, it may roll away and all runners may have been safe – and could have said the defense got a cheap out. But there are potentially nine defenders that could be near a ball that dropped on the infield and a DP is a real possibility. I’ll go back to my original position: if its in the air, I am going to call the IF based on the height, speed, and projected landing point – regardless of where the defenders have moved.

WMB
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Old Fri Sep 12, 2003, 10:15am
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Location: Twin Cities MN
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Quote:
Originally posted by WestMichBlue
I have called high school ball for years and always thought that I knew how to judge “ordinary effort” for an IF. After seeing the ASA interpretations over on Eteamz recently I am not so sure.... However, the ASA position is, in addition to all of above, that I actually need a fielder there under the ball to catch it. ...This interpretation seems to come from this ASA sentence (not in NFHS) in the IF definition: “The infield fly is ruled when the ball reaches the highest point based on the position of the closest infielder regardless of who makes the play.”
It seems to me that you really have a burr under your saddle wrt ASA, WMB.
Quote:
I’ll go back to my original position: if its in the air, I am going to call the IF based on the height, speed, and projected landing point – regardless of where the defenders have moved.
Fine, it's umpire judgment - even in ASA.
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Old Fri Sep 12, 2003, 11:01am
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Quote:
Originally posted by WestMichBlue
I have called high school ball for years and always thought that I knew how to judge “ordinary effort” for an IF. After seeing the ASA interpretations over on Eteamz recently I am not so sure.

I would judge an IF based on it’s height, speed, and projected landing point. I didn’t need any fielders; I could put them all in the parking lot. All I needed to know was their skill level. The little blooper that will land quickly between pitcher and home is not an IF, but if it goes a little higher and will land in the same spot, but later, possibly is an IF. The blooper that is going to drop over second base probably is not an IF for 12U Rec ball, but could be for NCAA even if it will land several feet into the outfield.

However, the ASA position is, in addition to all of above, that I actually need a fielder there under the ball to catch it. (The situation was a fly ball to F4’s area, but F4 had rotated to 1B and could not get back.) So your position is that it would have required extraordinary effort of the part of F4 to get back, or F1, F3, F6, or F8 to make the catch – thus no IF call.

Now this opens up all sorts of possibilities for vacant areas on the infield – fielders moving before the pitch, on the pitch, on the hit. Charging the plate, moving to a base, going the wrong way, misjudging the ball, the wind carrying the ball away from a fielder. We are required to make the IF decision and verbalize the call when the ball is at its apex. Do we also have to look around to see if a fielder may or may not be where the ball falls?

This interpretation seems to come from this ASA sentence (not in NFHS) in the IF definition: “The infield fly is ruled when the ball reaches the highest point based on the position of the closest infielder regardless of who makes the play.”
This statement refers to defeating the argument that if the umpire rules IF deep at the 2B position and F10 makes the catch, it does not invalidate the IF call.
Quote:

So, in the scenario described above, we are supposed to see the ball at its apex, determine that F4 is buried at first, decide that F6 can’t get there, and don’t believe that F9 is fast enough to make the catch – thus no call. And then F9 fields the ball on one hop and has an easy DP at 3B and 2B! Just what we were supposed to prevent from happening.
First, it doesn't make any difference if F9 can make the catch or not concerning in IF call. If the umpire can see this, than so can the runners and coaches, which means they should run or not run. The rule is meant to keep a fielder from feigning an normally easy ball to catch from trapping the ball and turning the duece. The rule isn't meant to alleviate the runner and coaches from observing, judging and participating in the game. [quote

If the ball is in the air in the infield then we need to protect the runners that are trapped at their base. If we are going to error, then I think we should error on the side of calling the IF. If we call IF and the ball drops, it may roll away and all runners may have been safe – and could have said the defense got a cheap out. But there are potentially nine defenders that could be near a ball that dropped on the infield and a DP is a real possibility. I’ll go back to my original position: if its in the air, I am going to call the IF based on the height, speed, and projected landing point – regardless of where the defenders have moved.

WMB
[/QUOTE]

So if the fielders are in a serious shift, falls down or just doesn't see the ball, you are giving them a free out because you don't want to be bothered doing your job in the prescribed manner? Or, if the infielder is deep and CAN field the ball with ordinary effort, but because it isn't within YOUR range, you are going to place the runners in jeopardy by not calling the IF.

Go figure!



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Old Fri Sep 12, 2003, 01:50pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

So if the fielders are in a serious shift, falls down or just doesn't see the ball, you are giving them a free out because you don't want to be bothered doing your job in the prescribed manner? Or, if the infielder is deep and CAN field the ball with ordinary effort, but because it isn't within YOUR range, you are going to place the runners in jeopardy by not calling the IF.

Go figure!
I guess what he is saying is that he shouldn't have to use extraordinary effort to determine ordinary effort
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Old Fri Sep 12, 2003, 03:20pm
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It's not that tough when you think about it.
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