Associational Debate

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by NCHSAA

Yes, straightforward in the sense of Flagrant, but the debate occurs between Technical vs. Personal here. Told the guys I would poll the intellectual audience here.

A punch, strike, or vicious elbow which makes contact during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul. One that doesn't is a flagrant technical foul.

8.6.3 SITUATION A:
A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul. While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously.

RULING: Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double *personal foul, no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-possession procedure is used. (4-19-8; 6-4-3f; 7-5-3b; 4-36; 10-3-8; 10 Penalty 1c, 8a(1))

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A punch, strike, or vicious elbow which makes contact during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul. One that doesn't is a flagrant technical foul.

8.6.3 SITUATION A:
A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul. While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously.

RULING: Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double *personal foul, no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-possession procedure is used. (4-19-8; 6-4-3f; 7-5-3b; 4-36; 10-3-8; 10 Penalty 1c, 8a(1))

All nice, but 10-3-8 says otherwise. Another case of rules and cases being inconsistent.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A punch, strike, or vicious elbow which makes contact during a live ball is a flagrant personal foul. One that doesn't is a flagrant technical foul.

8.6.3 SITUATION A:
A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul. While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously.

RULING: Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double *personal foul, no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-possession procedure is used. (4-19-8; 6-4-3f; 7-5-3b; 4-36; 10-3-8; 10 Penalty 1c, 8a(1))

Couple of things: How often do you see two guys throw the first punch simultaneously? Even if they do, if two guys punching each other isn't a fight, what is?

Also, this case play is about how to resume play after a false double foul, not about the specifics of what the foul in the case is.

[bob jenkins]

NOthing has changed in these rules since we first discussed the contradicion 5 or 10 years ago.