A bit of a mess at an Indiana HS game

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Wouldn't that be a flagrant on both? White committed an unsportsmanlike act that caused green to retaliate by fighting.

Not sure if I have anything on white. What she did does not justify the retaliation.

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure if I have anything on white. What she did does not justify the retaliation.

Yeah that's nothing. Happens all the time in all sports. Green 2 took offense for some reason.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure if I have anything on white. What she did does not justify the retaliation.

I would certainly have nothing on it own, but when it causes retaliation, I don't feel I can ignore it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I would certainly have nothing on it own, but when it causes retaliation, I don't feel I can ignore it.

I don't think we can go by that. I say "Thank you," but all you hear is "____K you" and assume the worst and retaliate. It happens.

[OKREF]

Technical foul on white for the dead ball forearm, green is ejected. As for the coaches, I don't know what I would do there. Is them arguing between each a technical foul?

[Maineac]

Originally Posted by OKREF

As for the coaches, I don't know what I would do there. Is them arguing between each a technical foul?

10-4-5 NOTE: The head coach may enter the court in the situation where a fight may break out - or has broken out - to prevent the situation from escalating.

PENALTY: (Art. 5) Flagrant foul, disqualification of individual offender, but only one technical-foul penalty is administered regardless of the number of offenders. This one foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach. If the head coach is an offender, an additional flagrant technical foul is charged to directly to the coach and penalized.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I don't think we can go by that. I say "Thank you," but all you hear is "____K you" and assume the worst and retaliate. It happens.

That is not what I said. If it is something unsportsmanlike, you can sometimes ignore it if it is smaller and deal with it in various ways but when it causes a fighting level retaliation, you can no longer ignore it. I'm not saying a benign action becomes unsportsmanlike because someone incorrectly reacts to it.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

That is not what I said. If it is something unsportsmanlike, you can sometimes ignore it if it is smaller and deal with it in various ways but when it causes a fighting level retaliation, you can no longer ignore it. I'm not saying a benign action becomes unsportsmanlike because someone incorrectly reacts to it.

Agreed. White #13's action after the foul led to Green #2's actions. That being said it would've been nice had one of the crew reacted to White #13's action when it happened. If someone at least rushes in blowing a whistle maybe - and I stress maybe - Green #2 doesn't do what she did since she may have been aware an official was on the way.

To repeat what I said in my first post, the lack of urgency on the part of the crew is my main concern.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure if I have anything on white. What she did does not justify the retaliation.

She appeared to instigate the situation. Either way I am probably dumping both players. It might be a HTBT situation to know if other things were going on or if something was said, but I have no problem with the white player being dumped too.

Peace

[jeremy341a]

Both players are gone. White's actions are unsportsmanlike and directly led to the fight and all the other extracurriculars. If it was seen it can't be ignored. I'll bet you one thing. She will think twice before giving anyone the get off me nudge in the future.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

Both players are gone. White's actions are unsportsmanlike and directly led to the fight and all the other extracurriculars. If it was seen it can't be ignored. I'll bet you one thing. She will think twice before giving anyone the get off me nudge in the future.

Whites actions don't warrant an ejection. No punch and it wasn't flagrant. Would you jet her if the punch didn't happen, I would think no. Just because it lead to green throwing a punch isn't grounds for an ejection, IMO.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by okref

whites actions don't warrant an ejection. No punch and it wasn't flagrant. Would you jet her if the punch didn't happen, i would think no. Just because it lead to green throwing a punch isn't grounds for an ejection, imo.

4-18-2 indicates otherwise.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

4-18-2 indicates otherwise.

But in 4.18.2 the initial action, in and of itself, would warrant a technical foul. So it this causes a fight, both players are gone. In the OP the original action, in and of itself, was nothing, in my opinion. That makes a big difference.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But in 4.18.2 the initial action, in and of itself, would warrant a technical foul. So it this causes a fight, both players are gone. In the OP the original action, in and of itself, was nothing, in my opinion. That makes a big difference.

The original action was more than nothing IMO. I would be fine with a technical foul even if green didn't retaliate. I see this as a violation of 10-3-7

Possibly even be a violation of 10-3-6c. An argument could be made that she was baiting her opponent.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But in 4.18.2 the initial action, in and of itself, would warrant a technical foul. So it this causes a fight, both players are gone. In the OP the original action, in and of itself, was nothing, in my opinion. That makes a big difference.

It wasn't "nothing" IMO. If it's the first sign of trouble, she's getting a quick chat about keeping her head in the game.

If it's post-chat, then it's a T.

If it starts a fight, then it's a flagrant T either way, IMO.