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Fri Mar 10, 2000, 04:11pm
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First of all, it wasn't me - really. I swear it was my partner. Here's the scenario. Girls playoff game. About 40 seconds to go in 4th. Score, A-51, B-49. A1 bringing the ball up in backcourt against heavy pressure. My partner is trail. He is properly showing visible count. A1 is dribbling when B1 bats the ball. No doubt B1 touched it during dribble because it bounced about two feet away. A1 recovers ball by grabbing it with both hands. A1 begins new dribble. Partner blows whistle.
Immediately, he loudly announces that it was an inadvertant whistle and he was going to give the ball back to team A OOB for throw-in. Coach B yells for timeout and it is granted. He starts yelling AT ME! His point is that he should have been given a 10 second backcourt call, since there was never loss of team control by team A. He also yells that my partner stopped his count with the bat, but that much more than 10 seconds had expired. In both cases, he was correct, but there was nothing I could do about it. To make matters worse, when he requested the timeout because he was angry, HE WAS ALREADY OUT OF TIMEOUTS! I very gingerly assessed the T, gave team A their two free throws (they made one) and the ball back. Bottom line - team A wound up winning by five. What a mess! 
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Fri Mar 10, 2000, 04:59pm
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Mark,
I think we have all been in those positions where we say, "Oh, $#&%!" Here's my story: I had a situation in a recent HS boys playoff game where Team A was inbounding the ball under Team B's basket with 2 seconds to go before halftime. A1's long pass down court was intercepted by B5. B4 requested a timeout when B5 gained control of the ball. I gave Team B the timeout they requested. However, when I looked up to the clock, it read 0.1. "Oh, $#&%!" I'm thinking. Needless to say, the coach of Team B was furious and thought I should have ignored the request. In hindsight, perhaps I could have. But my partner said there was about 1 second on the clock when I blew my whistle and 0.9 ran off due to the allowable lag time in Federation rules. When I blew my whistle, I really thought the Team B could have had a good chance at a last second shot. Fortunately, the timeout that the coach thought was "taken from him" didn't factor into the game. Anyone else have some of these types of stories? Please share!!
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Fri Mar 10, 2000, 05:00pm
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Rough time for your partner to zone out. It sounds like you agree with the coach, but was it really 10 or very close to it? I know some coaches start griping at 6,7,or 8; and those last couple seconds seem to last forever. I hate when 11 or 12 seconds rolls off the game clock and my partner still hasn't made a call. You never know if the clock went early, or if he has a slow count. Either way, you need the old butt implants after the coach notices.
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Fri Mar 10, 2000, 05:20pm
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Mark,
I also had a question for you. I'm not a girls' official, so I don't know all of the rule differences. However, I thought that girls didn't have a 10 second count. I live in NY and I'm pretty sure that's a rule. Is it different in other places? TGR
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Fri Mar 10, 2000, 08:10pm
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quote: A few states had "goofy" rules for girls up until a few years ago, including my "sister" state of Washington (I'm in Portland Oregon), but as far as I know, all states now have the same at the high school level? Anyone out there in a state that is still different? I'm talking about high school, not college or pro.
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Sat Mar 11, 2000, 04:40am
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Well Mark, I think I would go and find the assigning secretary that gave that guy a playoff game and string him up!!! It sounds like the guy shouldn't have been in the game in the first place if he can't get the simple ones right. Sorry about that experience but I hope you had some better playoff games after that!!
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Sat Mar 11, 2000, 05:02pm
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Well looks to me as if your partner missed one. Is that the only mistake that was made that night? You are correct team B did not gain control of the ball so the count should have continued, did you make any errors in that game?
I believe if you and the coach are going to blame your partner for that error, i must ask why in a close game would you not have done some preventive officating and informed the coach that he had NO timeouts left when he used his last one! When the coach was yelling at you, did you not talk to the coach and back up YOUR TEAM MATE! Your partner had the basketballs to admit he had an inadvertent whistle, i wonder if the coach admitted he had an inadvertent timeout request. Good Luck in the future. ------------------ Don
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Sat Mar 11, 2000, 05:51pm
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We've all seen tough breaks. As tough breaks go this was a so-so. At best team B did't get the chance to win at the end. Also, Alaska Ref had some good points. Instead of telling the teams how many time outs or no time outs, just tell the coach to check the official book concerning your time outs. Reason: what if, for whatever reason, you got it wrong and you tell the coach wrong. Nowhere in the mechanics does it say we are to tell the coaches how many time outs they have.
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Sat Mar 11, 2000, 07:49pm
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NYS highschool plays under NCAA rules with
a 30 second shot clock/no 10sec back court and only 5 sec violation,holding only anywhere on the court. And if the coach wants a time out who are u to decide if its a good idea or not. give it to him
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Sat Mar 11, 2000, 10:43pm
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IF the coach wants the time out, however if he is out of Time Outs i don't think he wants a Time Out. If i know he is out of time outs, I will confirm he wants it after i remind him he is out of time outs.
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Sun Mar 12, 2000, 11:17am
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Heey 'Bart' make up your mind, in one post you comment that it's not our job to inform coaches of how many time outs they have remaining (although it is considered good preventative officiating to do so).
In your next post you make the comment that you would confer with a coach of wether or not he really wants a time out when he no longer has any left?? (This is not described in the rule book either.) If a player or coach request a time out, it is not for us to decide if they really want it, per the rules you grant the time out, if they have none available they still get the time out and also results with a technical foul, thats it plain and simple. A little bit of 'preventative' officiating goes a long ways at preventing such situations, that's why most of us do it, makes everybody's job easier.
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Sun Mar 12, 2000, 07:58pm
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My reply about confering with the coach before granting the T.O. was in response to the previous post which said he is out of T.O.'s. Preventive officiating is just effective by telling the coach to check book for his T.O's. I only do this when the score keeker tells me they are out of T.O.'s. By this time the coach is at lease aware he has used most if not all his T.O.'s. So you see, two seperate situations, NO contradiction. I do get my point to the coach without telling him a number.
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Mon Mar 13, 2000, 01:33am
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Can I go back and ask a question that nobody has brought up. The lead knew there was say 40 seconds left in the game when they inbounded. When the trail blew the inadvertant whistle, say there was now 26 seconds on the clock. Couldn't the 2 walk away (meet at centercourt) and talk to each other and confirm this and call a 10 second violation ??? Are we there to get it right or to cover each other .... ??? Especially if the lead knew for a FACT that the 10 second vioation occurred.
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Mon Mar 13, 2000, 09:59am
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quote: Well, actually the book says something like it is the scorer's responsibility to inform a coach "through an official" when he/she has NO time outs remaining.
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Mon Mar 13, 2000, 10:16am
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Thanks Todd, You just had to pull the rule book out, didn't you? Way to go, now i have to change my mechanics.
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