Beginner questions

[SplitInfinitive]

Hey everyone,

I started refereeing in May this year and finally earned my stripes (Australia has a green-shirt system for new referees) in September. I've since become competent and independent enough that I can start properly working on my areas of weakness, so I'm hoping someone can help me with the below.

1. Memory. I imagine this will develop in time, but I have difficulty recalling play to defend judgments - I see it, I call it, then I tend to forget the situation. My memory is also an issue when remembering which team is going in which direction; the ball goes out of bounds, and I'm often not sure which way to point (despite knowing the colour). I've resorted to using landmarks around the court (e.g. "green plays towards the sign on the wall"), but this is pretty slow and rough.

2. Rebound contact. I'm good at calling individual fouls on shooters and on the floor, but not great at calling fouls in the rough play following a rebound. I often don't notice if players are fouling (vs. just reaching up), and don't want to over-impact the play. This usually results in me calling a pretty weak foul right near the end of the scuffle (because it's slower and easier to identify), and the player getting angry that the play wasn't stopped earlier when it probably should have been.

3. Consistency. I am often paired up with more experienced partners, who don't tend to take some rules (e.g. 3 seconds) very seriously. Sometimes I notice a 3-second violation, but then decide that, because 3 seconds hasn't previously been called at all in the game, it's unreasonable to call a player out on it unpredictably. Should I call it in this situation?

4. Spotting travels. Since May, I haven't called a single travel (which doesn't seem to be a problem, as I'm good with fouls and other calls). One of the supervisors where I work says it takes time to develop, and not to worry about it. I'm just not good at noticing when a pivot foot is moved. Can you think of any advice?

I would also like a rule clarification on post-shot fouling; as I understand it, once a player returns to a position on the floor after a shot, any foul on him is assessed as "after the shot", thereby resulting in baseline possession instead of free throws. But, in the NBA and other leagues, it seems that fouls on a player even a second or two after landing is still considered to be during the act of shooting. What would you do? We use FIBA rules.

I would appreciate any help with the above questions! I really love reffing, and want to take it as far as I can (I'm already aspiring to the NBL). Thanks for reading.

Cheers,
SplitInfinitive

[bob jenkins]

All of us went through all of that.

1. Use the benches. Or, announce the colour and then see which way the players move and point that way.

2. When the shot goes up (and you are not responsible for the shooter), find the most competitive matchup in you area and watch how both players move. Look fro displacement, then waith to see if the displacemnt affects who gets the rebound.

3. 3-seconds is one of the rules that is applied with a bit of judgment. If it's happened earlier in the game and not been called, then you don't wnt to call it late. But if it's the first time it's happened, then get it (I called it for the first time with < 1 min in a game last night). Also, look to get it early -- you don'[t need to wait for your partner to get it.

4. Yes, it takes time. Focus on the hip of the offensive player -- you will be able to see the foot move and you will see any contact that happens up higher. When a player stops, say "right foot" to identify the pivot.

5. By rule, you are correct. In practice, the "act of shooting" can last a bit longer. Maybe think of it that "if the shooter is CLEARLY back on the floor" then it's not a shooting foul.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

...announce the colour...

Bob, I didn't know you spoke Australian!

SplitInfinitive,
To eagerly embark on the road to progressively becoming a confident and competent official, you've already started to correctly take the proper step -- joining in to avidly learn from the questions and responses which many are diligent to periodically contribute to this discussion board. Bob's advice is solid and you can look forward to other responses which intend to adequately assist you in your pursuit.
Let me be the first to sincerely welcome you to officiating!

[APG]

Originally Posted by SplitInfinitive

I would also like a rule clarification on post-shot fouling; as I understand it, once a player returns to a position on the floor after a shot, any foul on him is assessed as "after the shot", thereby resulting in baseline possession instead of free throws. But, in the NBA and other leagues, it seems that fouls on a player even a second or two after landing is still considered to be during the act of shooting. What would you do? We use FIBA rules.

I would appreciate any help with the above questions! I really love reffing, and want to take it as far as I can (I'm already aspiring to the NBL). Thanks for reading.

Cheers,
SplitInfinitive

Under the rules sets of NFHS (US High school) and NCAA (US college), it would be handled the same way. By rule, as soon as the player returns to the floor w/a foot, then he's no longer an airborne shooter and no longer in the act of shooting. Thus any foul committed by the shooter than would be administered like any other common foul (spot OOB, bonus FT's, etc.)

Your confusion may be that the NBA considers a player in the act of shooting until the shooting motion ceases and he returns to a normal shooting floor position...which gives a longer period for a shooting foul to be called even after he's returned to the floor.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by SplitInfinitive

Hey everyone,

4. Spotting travels. Since May, I haven't called a single travel (which doesn't seem to be a problem, as I'm good with fouls and other calls). One of the supervisors where I work says it takes time to develop, and not to worry about it. I'm just not good at noticing when a pivot foot is moved. Can you think of any advice?

Although I've called a few travels, this is something I struggled with last year (my first year as an official). As I've started my second year, it's still something to work on for me, but it's slowly getting better.

[stiffler3492]

I think what I'm going to say applies mostly to recognizing travels (which some might argue is one of the most difficult things to do), it really applies to every part of officiating.

As you work more games and get more reps, the game will slow down and you'll know exactly what it is you're looking for.

I don't know if it's this way in Australia, but in the states it seems like everybody wants to play at a million miles (or kilometers) per hour. There's no rule that says officials have to officiate at that speed. Don't get caught up in that. Take your time. It's better to have a late (read: patient) whistle than to have a whistle and regret it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SplitInfinitive

Hey everyone,

I started refereeing in May this year and finally earned my stripes (Australia has a green-shirt system for new referees) in September. I've since become competent and independent enough that I can start properly working on my areas of weakness, so I'm hoping someone can help me with the below.

1. Memory. I imagine this will develop in time, but I have difficulty recalling play to defend judgments - I see it, I call it, then I tend to forget the situation. My memory is also an issue when remembering which team is going in which direction; the ball goes out of bounds, and I'm often not sure which way to point (despite knowing the colour). I've resorted to using landmarks around the court (e.g. "green plays towards the sign on the wall"), but this is pretty slow and rough.

2. Rebound contact. I'm good at calling individual fouls on shooters and on the floor, but not great at calling fouls in the rough play following a rebound. I often don't notice if players are fouling (vs. just reaching up), and don't want to over-impact the play. This usually results in me calling a pretty weak foul right near the end of the scuffle (because it's slower and easier to identify), and the player getting angry that the play wasn't stopped earlier when it probably should have been.

3. Consistency. I am often paired up with more experienced partners, who don't tend to take some rules (e.g. 3 seconds) very seriously. Sometimes I notice a 3-second violation, but then decide that, because 3 seconds hasn't previously been called at all in the game, it's unreasonable to call a player out on it unpredictably. Should I call it in this situation?

4. Spotting travels. Since May, I haven't called a single travel (which doesn't seem to be a problem, as I'm good with fouls and other calls). One of the supervisors where I work says it takes time to develop, and not to worry about it. I'm just not good at noticing when a pivot foot is moved. Can you think of any advice?

I would also like a rule clarification on post-shot fouling; as I understand it, once a player returns to a position on the floor after a shot, any foul on him is assessed as "after the shot", thereby resulting in baseline possession instead of free throws. But, in the NBA and other leagues, it seems that fouls on a player even a second or two after landing is still considered to be during the act of shooting. What would you do? We use FIBA rules.

I would appreciate any help with the above questions! I really love reffing, and want to take it as far as I can (I'm already aspiring to the NBL). Thanks for reading.

Cheers,
SplitInfinitive

1. Bob's advice is great. Plus, as you note, it comes with time. I'll add that you shouldn't need to defend your judgment that often; and if you do, the play should typically stick out.

2. Again, Bob nails it. Look for that matchup see if one player displaces another to the point of advantage. At this stage, though, I'd recommend just looking for the displacement and calling that. You'll develop a better feel over time for when a little displacement can be ignored, but I wouldn't worry about that yet.

3. Find out what the supervisors in your area want with this call. A few like to see it called "by the book." Others prefer to see some advantage/disadvantage applied.

4. Don't worry about it. It's not supposed to be your "best" call anyway.

5. I believe FIBA considers it a shooting foul until both feet are on the floor, but I could be wrong. Best advice, don't apply what you see in the NBA to your games.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Freddy

SplitInfinitive,
To eagerly embark on the road to progressively becoming a ...

Did you split these infinitives to make him (or her) feel more welcome?

Sometimes I too have trouble with making an OOB call and pointing in the correct direction with the correct hand. A few years ago I asked the same question on this forum and got the best advice about this situation yet. Say the color, sloooow down, take your time, let the players "tell" you what direction to point. Another thing that I've added: If we're moving left to right, for example, I'll pretend (like anyone's watching...) to adjust my shirt on my left shoulder and say the color of the defensive team in my head. That way I remember to use my left hand if it's the defensive team's ball. I dunno, I think the tactile, combined with the verbal in my head helps. Now if could just get those other voices to stop...

[easticles]

Originally Posted by SplitInfinitive

Hey everyone,

I started refereeing in May this year and finally earned my stripes (Australia has a green-shirt system for new referees) in September. I've since become competent and independent enough that I can start properly working on my areas of weakness, so I'm hoping someone can help me with the below.

1. Memory. I imagine this will develop in time, but I have difficulty recalling play to defend judgments - I see it, I call it, then I tend to forget the situation. My memory is also an issue when remembering which team is going in which direction; the ball goes out of bounds, and I'm often not sure which way to point (despite knowing the colour). I've resorted to using landmarks around the court (e.g. "green plays towards the sign on the wall"), but this is pretty slow and rough.

2. Rebound contact. I'm good at calling individual fouls on shooters and on the floor, but not great at calling fouls in the rough play following a rebound. I often don't notice if players are fouling (vs. just reaching up), and don't want to over-impact the play. This usually results in me calling a pretty weak foul right near the end of the scuffle (because it's slower and easier to identify), and the player getting angry that the play wasn't stopped earlier when it probably should have been.

3. Consistency. I am often paired up with more experienced partners, who don't tend to take some rules (e.g. 3 seconds) very seriously. Sometimes I notice a 3-second violation, but then decide that, because 3 seconds hasn't previously been called at all in the game, it's unreasonable to call a player out on it unpredictably. Should I call it in this situation?

4. Spotting travels. Since May, I haven't called a single travel (which doesn't seem to be a problem, as I'm good with fouls and other calls). One of the supervisors where I work says it takes time to develop, and not to worry about it. I'm just not good at noticing when a pivot foot is moved. Can you think of any advice?

I would also like a rule clarification on post-shot fouling; as I understand it, once a player returns to a position on the floor after a shot, any foul on him is assessed as "after the shot", thereby resulting in baseline possession instead of free throws. But, in the NBA and other leagues, it seems that fouls on a player even a second or two after landing is still considered to be during the act of shooting. What would you do? We use FIBA rules.

I would appreciate any help with the above questions! I really love reffing, and want to take it as far as I can (I'm already aspiring to the NBL). Thanks for reading.

Cheers,
SplitInfinitive

Hi all. I am a new official to this forum and am also from Australia. I have been reading some of the post and they are very insightful and a great resource for any official at any level.

What I have found to help me in some out of bounds situations is to yell out the color of the team gaining possession of the ball. This has helped on many occasions on a tough to judge situation. A nice loud voice will settle most of these situations and save you a headache from players and coaches from getting stuck into you.

2. Rebounding contact is at times at tough call. Again I have found having a voice on the play to be helpful. E.g. For those players that reach around in an attempt to knock the ball loose. A simple 'hand out' or 'no arm helps. In other situations you have to just call it. At nationals we look plays when players have come from an unfavorable position to gain an advantage, and any contact that causes displacement (movement) and in turn a disadvantage to be called as fouls.

3. Consistency is a hard area of your game to get right. Consistency is key at each end of the court and from partner to partner. For a crew to be consistent this must be taken into account. I often try my best to call similar 'looking' fouls the same as much as I can (unless I really messed up the first one). I then try to call situations as close to how my partner or R on a game would be. This way I a being consistent in what I call and consistent with the other officials on the game. Finally I would not make calls at the end of a game, that haven't been called in the first half such as a 3 sec violation.

4. I too stink when it comes to calling travels. My approach to this is to ensure that I call the ones that have an impact on the game. Small, insignificant travels in the back court with no pressure are ok. However, traveling of the first step, beating a defender must be called as they gain a clear advantage. To effectively call the travels I need I ensure I (1) have vision on the whole play. This means taking a step or two back from the play so I can see feet and up high. (2) I identify the pivot foot (they catch/land/spin on) and (3) identify when the pivot has been lifted and placed back on the floor. This has seemed to help me get the travels I need.

5. A player has a right to land safely after elevating for a shot. If this is taken away from them there must be a foul. If they haven't landed they are shooting FT's. How many time have you heard a coach yell "CRASH THE BOARDS" or "FOLLOW YOUR SHOT"? I a player has landed and then pushed of there spot or off balance by a defender this must be a foul as these players are entitled up a spot on the court can no longer follow their shot and are put at a disadvantage.

Hope this helps.
East!

[grunewar]

and to both you and easticles , welcome to the Forum!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by grunewar

To both you and easticles, welcome to the Forum!

No offense to grunewar, he probably doesn't have any direct access to Australian speakers, whereas, I have an Australian son-in-law, and every day I'm getting better, and better, at understanding him, so allow me to translate:

G'day mates.

[easticles]

G'day mates.[/QUOTE]

Those are some hieroglyphics I recognize!

[Redneck Ref]

Originally Posted by SplitInfinitive

3. Consistency. I am often paired up with more experienced partners, who don't tend to take some rules (e.g. 3 seconds) very seriously. Sometimes I notice a 3-second violation, but then decide that, because 3 seconds hasn't previously been called at all in the game, it's unreasonable to call a player out on it unpredictably. Should I call it in this situation?

I heard an experienced official once say, "Don't make 3 seconds your best call".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Redneck Ref

I heard an experienced official once say, "Don't make 3 seconds your best call".

Does that mean not to call it?

[Rich1]

No, but it does mean to remember to look for all the other things that go on as well. I can go wholegames without calling a 3sec and I can have games where there are many. Mostly it depends on whether or not the players are camping out, making a move to get out of the lane, or gaining an advantage. If a guy has one foot in the paint but is well out of the play I may wait on the count as the play develops. If he comes in with both feet and stops I begin the count almost immediately until there is a shot or until he begins to move out.

Also, it might be a good idea to discuss when the count should begin for the sake of any new refs. No count when ball is in back court. No count if the player is sliding across. Do count if he stops. Stop count if there is a shot or loss of team control. New count if player moves all the way out or when team regains control. Anyone have different ideas on starting/ stopping the count?