A Few Questions

[keyzersoze]

I'm just about to wrap up my first full year of officiating basketball, grades 7 to JV.

1. 7 boys - OP has ball on baseline, closely guarded by DP, not falling out of bounce, whips ball off DP's face to knock it out of bounds. I realize that it is legal to do this to get the ball back....issue any warnings? Anything?

2. Just a scenario - player shoots at the wrong basket, is fouled, basket is good. What should happen?

3. Watching the K-State v Kansas last night, midway second half. K-State's PG gets fouled hard on a drive, and elbows the offending player, thus earning an "intentional technical" foul. So that negates the first foul? And why isn't this just a technical foul?

4. There's no penalty for a team yelling "foul!" late in the game, correct? My partner was talking about how they couldn't do it and she should have issued a technical; I disagreed and said although it's probably not the best thing to coach, it's no penalty.

5. I did my second JV girls game Friday. During both the soph game and the JV game, the head varsity coach sat at the end of the court and questioned call after call. How do you handle this - do you say anything to him, ignore him? He wasn't rude necessarily; I just heard "travel", "missed that one", "should've been a foul" etc. He actually told me during a timeout he'd gladly take me and my crew back to his town...I guess I'll take that as a compliment.

Thanks!

[shishstripes]

Originally Posted by keyzersoze

I'm just about to wrap up my first full year of officiating basketball, grades 7 to JV.

1. 7 boys - OP has ball on baseline, closely guarded by DP, not falling out of bounce, whips ball off DP's face to knock it out of bounds. I realize that it is legal to do this to get the ball back....issue any warnings? Anything?

2. Just a scenario - player shoots at the wrong basket, is fouled, basket is good. What should happen?

3. Watching the K-State v Kansas last night, midway second half. K-State's PG gets fouled hard on a drive, and elbows the offending player, thus earning an "intentional technical" foul. So that negates the first foul? And why isn't this just a technical foul?

4. There's no penalty for a team yelling "foul!" late in the game, correct? My partner was talking about how they couldn't do it and she should have issued a technical; I disagreed and said although it's probably not the best thing to coach, it's no penalty.

5. I did my second JV girls game Friday. During both the soph game and the JV game, the head varsity coach sat at the end of the court and questioned call after call. How do you handle this - do you say anything to him, ignore him? He wasn't rude necessarily; I just heard "travel", "missed that one", "should've been a foul" etc. He actually told me during a timeout he'd gladly take me and my crew back to his town...I guess I'll take that as a compliment.

Thanks!

1. Did OP intentionally throw the ball at his face? If not, nothing. Same could be said about throwing into DP's groin area. Make a decision on the intent of their actions.

2. A player may not legally shoot a ball at the wrong basket, they may throw it at the basket, and if it goes in counts as a goal for the opponent. In your case it is no different than the player passing and getting fouled. Stops play immediately and you shoot bonus if in the bonus; if not OOB nearest spot of the foul.

3. Didn't watch the game but wouldn't "negate" a first foul but since we penalize in the order that they occur defensive team get the ball although NCAA rules differences may come into play.

4. Are they yelling at you to call a foul? or yelling at their teammates to foul? If yelling at you, talk to captain and/or coach. If it continues, then T them up. If they are telling their teammates to foul, the foul should be considered intentional by rule, but personally have never seen an official call it.

5. Ignore the HC, just like any other fan unless they become obscene and need to be removed from the gym.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by keyzersoze

OP has ball on baseline, closely guarded by DP, not falling out of bounds, whips ball off DP's face to knock it out of bounds. I realize that it is legal to do this to get the ball back....issue any warnings? Anything?

Assuming that the player didn't aim the ball at his opponent's face, with no intent to do harm, just make sure that the kid is alright, and that tempers aren't escalating, before putting the ball back in play. If you believe that player did aim the ball at his opponent's face, with intent to do harm, then you could probably go with a flagrant technical foul. (See Snaqwell's post below)

Originally Posted by keyzersoze

Player shoots at the wrong basket, is fouled, basket is good. What should happen?

Foul before the ball goes through the basket? Not a legal try, ball becomes dead with the foul, even if the ball is still in flight, and a basket cannot be scored, however, it could be a one and one if the team is in the bonus.

Originally Posted by keyzersoze

There's no penalty for a team yelling "foul!" late in the game, correct? My partner was talking about how they couldn't do it and she should have issued a technical; I disagreed and said although it's probably not the best thing to coach, it's no penalty.

You are correct. The NFHS came out with an interpretation a just a few years ago (I'm sure that Nevadaref can dig it up) that even if a coach is yelling, "Foul him", the officials do not have to automatically call an intentional foul, but should make the call like any other foul.

Originally Posted by keyzersoze

5. I did my second JV girls game Friday. During both the soph game and the JV game, the head varsity coach sat at the end of the court and questioned call after call. How do you handle this - do you say anything to him, ignore him? He wasn't rude necessarily; I just heard "travel", "missed that one", "should've been a foul" etc.

If he's not actually on the bench, then there's not much you can do. Technically, he is a team follower, and, by the book, you could penalize him with a technical foul, but I wouldn't go down that street unless he was vulgar, or used profanity, and even then, it would be a stretch for me to call a technical on a team follower. However, at the minimum, I would report the incident to both the athletic director, and your assigner.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Assuming that the player didn't aim the ball at his opponent's face, with no intent to do harm, just make sure that the kid is alright, and that tempers aren't escalating, before putting the ball back in play. If you believe that player did aim the ball at his opponent's face, with intent to do harm, then you could probably go with a flagrant personal foul.

Billy Billy Billy. You can't call a personal foul here without contact. If it's flagrant, it's a flagrant T.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

You can't call a personal foul here without contact. If it's flagrant, it's a flagrant T.

Thanks for catching that. I fixed it. There was certainly contact here, the ball hitting the player in the face, but it wasn't contact between players. It's funny how if OP hits DP in the face with his hand, it's a personal flagrant foul, but if he intentionally, to cause harm, throws the ball, which contacts DP in the face, it's a technical flagrant foul, with both occurring during a live ball.

[Fritz]

Originally Posted by shishstripes

1. 3. Didn't watch the game but wouldn't "negate" a first foul but since we penalize in the order that they occur defensive team get the ball although NCAA rules differences may come into play.

They didn't ignore the foul on Morningstar (defender), it was called but K-State wasn't in the bonus yet. So refs then went to administer the T with KU shooting and getting the ball. Interesting that on the replays, while Morningstar was moving and correctly was called for a block, the K-State player (Clemente) had his left elbow into Morningstar's neck during the play while dribbling with his right. And after the game Clemente was quoted as saying he did retaliate but it was because Morningstar elbowed him in the stomach during the play. Lots of elbows in just a few seconds I guess.

Sorry for the rambling, big Jayhawk fan here. Thought the calls on this were good game management, Clemente clearly elbowed Morningstar in the back after the whistle had blown for the block and after C had passed M on the drive.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Fritz

Sorry for the rambling, big Jayhawk fan here. Thought the calls on this were good game management, Clemente clearly elbowed Morningstar in the back after the whistle had blown for the block and after C had passed M on the drive.

As a big Wildcat fan, I agree the calls were handled appropriately. Foul on Morningstar, may have been some sort of elbow/elbow in there when they were close, but then Clemente clearly elbowed in the back after the play.

Stupid - and big - play.