A Few Questions

[Stair-Climber]

1. Why is it a mechanics no no to tell batter to take 1B or point to 1B on ball four? I always just say "ball four" with a strong voice, but sometimes batter doesn't realize that she should take 1B. If batter continues to stand in batter's box after ball four or if batter starts heading to dug out because she believes she is out, shouldn't we (umps) step in and tell batter that she in entitled to 1B?

2.Is it appropriate for me to call time and make F2 throw ball back to F1 if there is a lengthy standoff between F2 (holding ball after pitch) and runner standing off base threatening to steal? Sometimes this situation goes on way too long without either player making a serious move.

3.If I am working game by myself and out far in the infield on play at a base, is it a good idea or appropriate mechanics to always call time when runner(s) have stopped at base(s) and the ball is back to the pitcher in the circle? Reason: While heading back to behind home plate, if I don't call time, I have to watch the runners all the way back in order to make sure that they don't leave base (with F1 holding ball in circle). If I call time, I don't have to worry about what runners are doing until play resumes--correct?

4. Is it inappropriate for me (ump) to tell batter (standing in batter's box) to step out of way of possible play at home when runner on 3B is coming home on wild pitch or passed ball? If it is wrong for me to do that, please tell me why.

5. Playing ASA rules, is it appropriate for me (ump) to allow coaches to stand outside of dugout during live play if the league has decided that it is okay. Had a coach, who was standing next to but outside of dugout, get hit hard in the leg from line drive this evening.

[bluezebra]

1..I see no problem in pointing.
2..Yes. UNLESS you're paid by the hour.
3..Call time.
4..Yes. That's coaching.
5..Yes. Next time maybe that coach will learn to pay attention.

Bob

[chuck chopper]

With regard to # 3. Look up the Look back rule to see what happens to runners who leave their bases after the ball is back to the pitcher in the circle.

[mcrowder]

2 and 3 - softball is a live ball sport. Don't kill the play. Just watch what your supposed to watch on your way back to the plate on 3, and on 2 - the umpire is not the 10th defensive player... if catcher cannot get the ball back to pitcher without your help, they need a new catcher.

A lot of these mechanics questions differ at the younger ages. At high-school level, they better know the count. At 10U - sure, point to first and say take your base if necessary. These girls are learning.

4 - don't coach. There are rules regarding interference by this batter. If you help one team avoid interference by telling her to back away, and don't help someone else - you've just unfairly harmed one team.

5 - if the league allows it, allow it. If the boneheads can't coach from just 1 foot farther away, but with the added protection of a fence, and the bonehead gets hit... whose problem is that. Also - remember that coaches are responsible for those buckets. If the ball hits it, it's interference of some sort if the ball is live.

[AtlUmpSteve]

The party line on #1 is that batters should know that 1) on ball four they have earned a walk, 2) when they have earned a walk, they go to first base, 3) they should know where first base is located without the umpire pointing to it. If there are any of these points the batter doesn't know, the team coach should educate them, not the umpire; your responsibility is to repeat "ball four", or "that is four", and not allow another pitch or play until the BR completes the base award.

I have seen batters (and coaches) embarassed by not recognizing one of the above; it happens just once, generally, if you force them to learn the game.

You don't tell a runner where first base is when they hit the ball, you don't point to first base on a dropped third strike; why would you think you need to or should point to it on a walk? No matter what age or level.

On the other hand, maybe it started just as one of those "we don't do it because baseball does" mechanics.

[mcrowder]

I see your point AUS. But I would draw a different analogy. A base on balls is an award. Name any other award where you don't tell the runner what base to go to? Even if it's obvious, or "they should know."

[AtlUmpSteve]

I considered that before responding. Most base awards are (at least in the mind of players) a judgment by an umpire; what was the position of the runner, what rule is being applied, was the hit batter making an attempt to avoid. Even then, I don't point on awards; if I say "dead ball, first base" on a HBP, I expect the BR to know where first base is located. On an overthrow into dead ball territory, I will kill the ball, allow any running responsibilities (if any) to be completed, and announce the base award; I don't point to 2B, 3B, or home (runner, you are awarded home, I assume you know where that is). Also, all other base awards that I can think of occur during (or as a result of) a dead ball, so your announcement affects nothing beyond the award.

On a walk, there are no alternates that can be applied; once you announce ball four, the batter is awarded first, and only first, and runners forced to advance do so. Ball is alive, so subsequent plays can occur, players may (claim to) misunderstand you. I see that as getting awfully close to a topic you speak against often, Mike; you are close to coaching, and there MAY some play in the mind of an offensive coach that you are getting involved in (LBR doesn't yet apply, etc.).

[SRW]

Similar point in CoEd SP - Male walks, he gets 2B.

He's "awarded" 2B, but does he have to take it? I've had a few times where the guy stops at 1B, and doesn't go to 2B. If he doesn't know where to go, and the offense doesn't remind him - should I?

Typically I'll say "That's a 2-base award". Only once did he not go to 2B. Ok, dummy, you're on 1B... next batter please.

[mcrowder]

AUS - I see your points. I don't point either. To me, pointing toward first base is unnecessary, and looks like some baseball umpires' strike signals.

Also - I normally just say Ball. Not ball four. Just "Ball."

I only say more when nothing else is happening and the batter's just standing there (this is usually either with younger girls, or with 14U's at the very bottom of the batting order on badly coached teams), I might add "Take your Base". It's always an afterthought, and it's meant to get things moving when the batter is clueless. I can't remember the last time I had to tell a BR to take first on a walk in highschool.

But at younger levels (like 10U or 8U), it doesn't bother me when I see the umpires that work for me point at first base. Most of these girls don't even know the count at any point in their at bat, and sometimes need "prodding" (which may be "coaching").

Sometimes in lower level COED rec ball, you almost have to tell them when they have ball 4 and to take the award. Also, you have to practically remind the men to go onto 2nd base if they pick up a walk. You can't believe the grief we get at those lower level games in COED rec.

Someone said something about the coach having to educate the players. Well, I've had experiences at those lower level COED rec games where I've had to educate the coaches to educate his/her players. Some of these folks come out to play just for the fun of it, and more often than not, almost noone knows the rules except for a handful few who've played the game before.

[CecilOne]

Originally posted by mcrowder
AUS - I see your points. I don't point either. To me, pointing toward first base is unnecessary, and looks like some baseball umpires' strike signals.

Also - I normally just say Ball. Not ball four. Just "Ball."

I only say more when nothing else is happening and the batter's just standing there (this is usually either with younger girls, or with 14U's at the very bottom of the batting order on badly coached teams), I might add "Take your Base". It's always an afterthought, and it's meant to get things moving when the batter is clueless. I can't remember the last time I had to tell a BR to take first on a walk in highschool.

But at younger levels (like 10U or 8U), it doesn't bother me when I see the umpires that work for me point at first base. Most of these girls don't even know the count at any point in their at bat, and sometimes need "prodding" (which may be "coaching").

I agree, except I can "remember the last time I had to tell a BR to take first on a walk in high school", but it was JV.

[AtlUmpSteve]

The OP asked why the mechanics were as written. The clear consensus is that it might only be necessary or appropriate at very young ages or low level rec ball to tell a batter that ball four means you are done batting, go to first base. At times, when it is strike three, I admit I have had to repeat things like "that's three", "you're out", and even (when aggravated) "that's all you get". But, I have never yet pointed to the dugout ....... (:

Back to the main point, the mechanics are written for both the masses and for championship play, with every effort to standardize for the benefit of both. I don't think it would benefit either to state "except when very young or low level play"; we all recognize that some mechanics are necessarily relaxed depending on the level of play. Rec level umpires rarely do well at top tournaments; tournament umpires can not effectively handle rec ball, either, unless you relax, adjust, and know what can and should be handled literally and what can and should be relaxed. In any event, the mechanics manuals should not describe these instances.

[Stair-Climber]

Thanks for all of the feedback. I have a few comments regarding your responses to my questions:

#1. After reading all of your responses regarding ball four, I have decided to first announce in a strong voice, "Ball Four". If batter continues to stand in batter's box or acts like she just struck out, I will say to the batter, "That was ball four--take your base". I see nothing wrong with that even if it goes against proper mechanics. We expect the batter to go to 1B and any delay in her going there just slows the game down. For AtlUmpSteve, there is a difference between a base hit or dropped third strike and ball four. With a base hit or dropped third strike, I don't care if batter heads for 1B. If batter doesn't go, she will be put out. On ball four, nothing else can happen in the game until the batter goes to 1B, so why allow that situation to linger?

#3. If I am working a game by myself and find myself near 2B on a play, I will call time once runners have stopped at a base and the ball is back to pitcher in circle. I see no reason to keep the ball alive while I make my way back to my place behind the plate. If there is runner on 2B and if I keep play live, I will have to either walk backwards all the way back to home plate or keep my head turned back toward 2B while I walk to home plate in order to keep my eye on the runner.

[mcrowder]

One suggestion after your final comment.

RUN (or at least Jog) back to your position. Walking looks lazy. (Of course, after game 6 with no partner, walking may be the only option... we've all been there. )

[Stair-Climber]

Walk back to the plate was a poor choice of words. I want to call time in that situation because I actually hustle back to the plate pretty fast. It irritates me to watch a lazy ump take his or her time moving around the field.