Simultaneous Foul... or not??

[shavano]

I thought I was accurate in describing the play.. What questions do you guys have?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by shavano

I thought I was accurate in describing the play.. What questions do you guys have?

What was the status of the ball when the fouls occurred?

[shavano]

Adam,

Ball was bouncing (loose) on court when whistles sounded.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by shavano

Adam,

Ball was bouncing (loose) on court when whistles sounded.

When the whistles sounded isn't relevant. POI is based on when the ball became dead, which is not when the whistles sounded. It's when the fouls occurred.

If the fouls occurred while the shot was in the air, go to the arrow if he missed. If it was when the ball was still in the shooter's hand, then A gets the ball back based on POI.

[HawkeyeCubP]

I'm confused. How could there possibly be a foul against an airborne shooter and a simultaneous foul by Awhomever while jostling for rebounding position...with the whistles for both blowing while the ball is bouncing on the court? That's a lot of hang time.

[shavano]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I'm confused. How could there possibly be a foul against an airborne shooter and a simultaneous foul by Awhomever while jostling for rebounding position...with the whistles for both blowing while the ball is bouncing on the court? That's a lot of hang time.

Ball hit floor once when whistles sounded..

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by shavano

Ball hit floor once when whistles sounded..

Forget when the whistles sounded. It's not about when the whistles sounded in this case, it's about when the fouls actually occurred. At the same time, or one before the other? That's it.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by shavano

Adam,

Ball was bouncing (loose) on court when whistles sounded.

What was the status of the ball when the fouls occurred? It doesn't matter when the whistles sounded.

[shavano]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

What was the status of the ball when the fouls occurred? It doesn't matter when the whistles sounded.

Bryan,

According to C, ball was in the air when her foul occurred.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by shavano

Bryan,

According to C, ball was in the air when her foul occurred.

Either way, airborne shooter or not, did both of the fouls actually occur at the same time? It doesn't matter when the whistles blew, just when the fouls actually happened.

If one foul actually occurred first, you penalize that foul and ignore the other. UNLESS, that "other" foul is flagrant or intentional.

[shavano]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Either way, airborne shooter or not, did both of the fouls actually occur at the same time? It doesn't matter when the whistles blew, just when the fouls actually happened.

If one foul actually occurred first, you penalize that foul and ignore the other. UNLESS, that "other" foul is flagrant or intentional.

According to my teammates, they did. R11 ended up on the floor after being pushed.

We discussed issuing a flagrant against W2, but L thought that there wasn't any malice, nor premeditation. We thought given the state of the game at that time ( 3:24 left in 4th, Red up by 18), that the simultaneous was the correct call.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Either way, airborne shooter or not, did both of the fouls actually occur at the same time? It doesn't matter when the whistles blew, just when the fouls actually happened.

If one foul actually occurred first, you penalize that foul and ignore the other. UNLESS, that "other" foul is flagrant or intentional.

Not always true, and this play might be one.

A1 releases ball.

A1 is fouled. Ball is still in the air and is live.

A2 fouls while ball is in the air, but after A1 is fouled.

Or, A1 releases ball.

B1 moves into A1's landing space and at the same time A2 pushes B2 moving for rebound position.

The last one is a simultaneous foul; the first two are false double fouls.

Or,
A1 is fouled.

Ball goes below ring.

A2 pushes B2.

Because of recognition timing of the officials, the whistles sound sulitaneously.

Here, we ignore the second foul.

Both fouls (by rule) are penalized.

Or,
A1 starts try and is fouled.

A1 releases ball on try.

A2 fouls.

Again, both fouls are penalized.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Either way, airborne shooter or not, did both of the fouls actually occur at the same time? It doesn't matter when the whistles blew, just when the fouls actually happened.

If one foul actually occurred first, you penalize that foul and ignore the other. UNLESS, that "other" foul is flagrant or intentional.

Not quite. The rebounding foul, even if it is second, can still be during a live ball and can/should still be penalized in some cases even if it is not intentional/flagrant.