The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:35pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Howard Pennsylvania
Posts: 189
what to do when you know you and your crew had an awful game

Last night my crew and I worked a varsity boys game. It was a fast paced game that in my opinion was out of control and should've slowed down, but thats here nor there. My crew included myself (official of 5 years but with only a dozen varsity games), a 7 year veteran with only 20 varsity game experience, and a first time varsity official with no varsity or three man game experience.
The game started off ok but QUICKLY became a train wreck. As i mentioned it was not a well played game. But to compound that the rookie on the crew had the deer in headlights look. He did not have a good half at all. Which ended with him not understanding that he had the last shot opposite of the table. A shot was made that was clearly before the buzzer, but again deer in headlights. He didn't know what to do even though we pregamed this. I pointed to him and he froze for a moment then waived his hands in a "safe" motion if he were a baseball umpire. We met at half court and I asked if he was waiving off the basket or just signaling the end of the half. He again froze. The croud was outraged. I then raised my voice and said SIR WAS THE BASKET GOOD OR NOT. WERE YOU WAIVING OFF THE BASKET OR ENDING THE HALF. He finally said it was good. So I told him to signal the good basket. So 20 seconds after the horn the basket was awarded.
I'd like to say it got better from there but it did not. We had multiple times when we had 2 leads and no "C". And multiple times with 2 "T" and no "C".
My question is what do you do? How could I as the "R" done it different.
The coach said to me after the game we need to talk I cant have this at the varsity level. What do you say, when you agree with him?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:45pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Red Sox Nation
Posts: 268
IMO...and this is just my opinion because I wasn't there...I wouldn't have gone about the discussion at the end of the half in the way you did. Knowing he was clearly confused I would have just gotten the three of you together and huddled like you were trying to make sure you got the call right. At that point you could break and any three of you could tell the scorer to count the basket.

You have those nights sometimes but kind of bad on your scheduler for putting 3 inexperienced guys together. At the same time though I have worked with guys in their 1st varsity game that had the confidence to be the R and guys in their 100th that didn't.

As far as the rotations there probably wasn't a person in the gym that noticed that stuff except the three of you. Chalk it up as learning and he will know what to do next time.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:48pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 292
Just out of curiosity, did the coach assign you three to this game or did some association assignor?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 03:54pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
It sounds like a bad mix of officials for this game. All you can do really is learn from the experience and hope you have some more experience on the game that meshes.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 95
Ask the AD for a copy of the tape and give it to the guys as a learning tool......
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:03pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Missouri
Posts: 671
Somebody has to take control of the crew during the game. As described, the two of you with experience should have gotten your heads together early and agreed to carry the new guy's water. But after the game, talk to the coach and tell him you share his concerns and let him know it will be addressed. And then address it. Make sure your association doesn't drop a guy in a varsity setting never having done 3 man before, and let your assigner know this newbie is not ready for primetime.

Its either that, or have the newb fake an injury so you can close out the second half 2-man!
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 View Post
We had multiple times when we had 2 leads and no "C". And multiple times with 2 "T" and no "C".
My question is what do you do? How could I as the "R" done it different.
"No rotations. If you go over as lead, then go back when play reverses."

"Don't spend so much time worrying about where to be that you forget to officiate."
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:10pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
Somebody has to take control of the crew during the game. As described, the two of you with experience should have gotten your heads together early and agreed to carry the new guy's water. But after the game, talk to the coach and tell him you share his concerns and let him know it will be addressed. And then address it. Make sure your association doesn't drop a guy in a varsity setting never having done 3 man before, and let your assigner know this newbie is not ready for primetime.

Its either that, or have the newb fake an injury so you can close out the second half 2-man!
I would never talk to the coach after the game to tell him this. If he insists, refer him to the AD. Refer the AD to the assigner. Get on the phone as soon as you're in the car and call your assigner.

If the AD did the scheduling, let him deal with the coach. If the AD scheduled one of you and that guy brought in the other two, then it is a learning experience. There's no reason a varsity games should have three officials with a total of 27 varsity games of experience. It's really two rookies and a second year guy, experience-wise.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:20pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Howard Pennsylvania
Posts: 189
The assigner schedules our officials not the coaches. Also I agree that there are new guys that could jump in and run with the best and then there are those that probably shouldnt be there. We, I tried to encourage him and tell him we've been there not to long ago, but honestly I've never been that bad lol. I admit I didn't have a great game last night either.
But I called my assigner to let him know what happend. He was apprecitive.
I never want to be one of those guys that bash another official (I cant stand when I hear that) but I just think it wasn't fair for him or any of us to be in that spot.

As far as the missed rotations it just sucked do to being no one there to make a call out of bounds on transition and things like that. I know you can hide mistakes like that but it was horrible times to be out of position.

I've been working on court presence and last night wasn't a good one.

But thank you all very much. You all really do help make me a better official.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:33pm
AremRed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 View Post
first time varsity official with no varsity or three man game experience.
Three man should be learned in 1) camps, or 2) low level games like Middle School. You should never have a guys first three man game be a Varsity game. I should know, my first three man game was a Varsity game. It did not go well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMUplayer View Post
Ask the AD for a copy of the tape and give it to the guys as a learning tool......
Do this today.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
"Don't spend so much time worrying about where to be that you forget to officiate."
This is the hardest thing for guys just starting to do three man. They have all these two man tendencies that they need to relearn cuz the angles are all different. Three man also requires an awareness of where your partners are during a rotation. A new guy will be so overwhelmed with his new responsibilities that he will forget to officiate and thus make bad or no calls at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballgame99 View Post
Somebody has to take control of the crew during the game.
When huddling to count the shot you should have simply said, "the shot was good, go in front of the table and count it". Don't hang the guy out to dry in front of everyone.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:35pm
Back from the DL
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Maine
Posts: 2,540
It's pretty simple. If you have a bad game, learn and move onto the next one.
__________________
Confidence is a vehicle, not a destination.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Howard Pennsylvania
Posts: 189
You are correct. I guess I was just concerned that he waived off the shot and didn't want to over rule him. But thinking back yes you are correct.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 04:54pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
The Land That Time Forgot ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Three man should be learned in 1) camps, or 2) low level games like Middle School. You should never have a guys first three man game be a Varsity game. I should know, my first three man game was a Varsity game. It did not go well.
I'm going to guess that less than two, or three, percent of the varsity games in my little corner of Connecticut, are three person games. I would bet my house that zero percent of subvarsity games are three person games. In fact, I would go as far as saying that there are more one person subvarsity games than there are three person subvarsity games.

My first, and only, experience with a three person game was a boys varsity game in a holiday tournament. It could be described as a "big game", which is why three officials were assigned to that game. Previous to that, I had only studied three person mechanics in the manual, never on the floor.

One year, we had a voluntary, preseason, one hour, "on the floor", three person demonstration by our interpreter. Only a couple of dozen officials showed up. This demonstration hasn't been offered since.

For some officials on my local board, their first three person game is a state tournament quarterfinal game. The only exception would be those officials that also work college games, and there aren't too many of those.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Dec 12, 2013 at 05:06pm.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 678
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'm going to guess that less than two, or three, percent of the varsity games in my little corner of Connecticut, are three person games. I would bet my house that zero percent of subvarsity games are three person games. In fact, I would go as far as saying that there are more one person subvarsity games than there are three person subvarsity games.

My first, and only, experience with a three person game was a boys varsity game in a holiday tournament. It could be described as a "big game", which is why three officials were assigned to that game. Previous to that, I had only studied three person mechanics in the manual, never on the floor.

One year, we had a voluntary, preseason, one hour, "on the floor", three person demonstration by our interpreter. Only a couple of dozen officials showed up. This demonstration hasn't been offered since.

For some officials on my local board, their first three person game is a state tournament quarterfinal game. The only exception would be those officials that also work college games, and there aren't too many of those.
Man, thats crazy!! In Wyoming, we've really focused on it, so much so that we do 3-man all the way down to the Middle School level! Now granted, that's our association, most places I traveled to for varsity games have 2 man on the JV games, but there are zero varsity games in this state scheduled as a 2 man crew.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 12, 2013, 05:24pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 270
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnsonboys03 View Post
And multiple times with 2 "T" and no "C".
In my opinion...this falls directly on the two officials with experience. If one of you sees there are two T officials the experienced official at trail needs to slide down and become C. If they SHOULD be the trail, trust the lead to close down on the lane and help you cover. There will be very few in the gym that knows the three of you are out of position.

As far as the last shot of the half. If you knew it was clearly release before the buzzer, why didn't you just count the basket yourself and have another teaching moment during the half.

Now that said, with everything going on I would imagine you had a lot running through your head and he probably took you "out of your game". Learn from it, teach as much as you can during dead balls and move on.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What an awful game..... derwil Basketball 6 Sat Feb 05, 2011 01:16pm
Awful ref in USA-Slovenia game MD Longhorn Soccer 5 Mon Jun 21, 2010 07:09am
Awful, awful basketball Rich Basketball 10 Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:51pm
Game 7 Crew tmp44 Basketball 16 Wed Jun 08, 2005 09:19am
Div I game crew question SC Ump Football 3 Fri Oct 31, 2003 02:34pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:29pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1