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[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Not often at all. But I'm not going to make a call and hope the coach doesn't ask for an explanation. Because if it is the rare instance where he/she wants to know what I saw, and I respond with "I just call it", then I could be in for a world of hurt (so to speak).

BTW, I get asked by observers about calls like that all the time. So even if the coach doesn't ask, others might.

The point is that a traveling call is relatively black and white. He illegally moved his pivot foot in excess of the prescribed limits. In the OP if I see this player pick up his dribble at the free throw line while executing a pivot and wind up under the basket with both feet on the floor, I don't have to know exactly where and when each foot landed to know he traveled. Any discussion of this play with a coach would pretty much be a "No, he didn't!" "Yes, he did." kind of thing, and I'm not likely to get into that.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The point is that a traveling call is relatively black and white. He illegally moved his pivot foot in excess of the prescribed limits. In the OP if I see this player pick up his dribble at the free throw line while executing a pivot and wind up under the basket with both feet on the floor, I don't have to know exactly where and when each foot landed to know he traveled. Any discussion of this play with a coach would pretty much be a "No, he didn't!" "Yes, he did." kind of thing, and I'm not likely to get into that.

Honestly, I may miss this call, let alone be able to describe it. I just wouldn't feel comfortable saying anything other than "when he picked up his dribble his right foot was the pivot foot, which he then lifted and put back down on the floor before the pass".

I don't mean to say I'd look down on you for saying it that way, it just wouldn't feel definitive enough for others to accept it.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Honestly, I may miss this call, let alone be able to describe it. I just wouldn't feel comfortable saying anything other than "when he picked up his dribble his right foot was the pivot foot, which he then lifted and put back down on the floor before the pass".

And I'm saying, in a case like this, you don't even have to know which foot was the pivot (you probably will) to call a travel. If he's on one or both feet holding the ball at the free throw line and winds up on both feet under the basket, and it obviously was not a jump stop, he traveled. If a coach wants to ask which foot was the pivot in this case, it doesn't deserve an answer.

[BillyMac]

When coaches ask me about a travel, which is seldom, I usually respond by identifying the pivot foot, right, or left, and then mutter something about, "in excess of the prescribed limit". The fact that I know which foot is the pivot foot, combined with some "rulespeak" mumbo jumbo, usually impresses them, and they shut up. Most coaches are expecting a response with some mention of steps taken, and when I don't respond in such a manner, it confuses them and takes them off their game. Coaches can easily get flustered, and lose their train of thought. Speechless coaches are so cute.

[just another ref]

Most conversations I have about traveling involve the phrase "he gets two steps" at some point.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

... If a coach wants to ask which foot was the pivot in this case, it doesn't deserve an answer.

Then you need to do some serious work on your communication skills. It's quite simple:

"Coach, he lifted and replaced both feet, so I can call a travel for either."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The point is that a traveling call is relatively black and white. He illegally moved his pivot foot in excess of the prescribed limits. In the OP if I see this player pick up his dribble at the free throw line while executing a pivot and wind up under the basket with both feet on the floor, I don't have to know exactly where and when each foot landed to know he traveled. Any discussion of this play with a coach would pretty much be a "No, he didn't!" "Yes, he did." kind of thing, and I'm not likely to get into that.

This play is the exact reason you need to know. It's not a travel until the right foot comes down. What if he dishes or releases a shot just before that? You're good enough to know the difference without knowing which foot is the pivot?

Quite frankly, I'm not all that worked up about any of this. Not a single person in the gym is screaming for a travel at this point and missing this is a minor thing in my world.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich

This play is the exact reason you need to know. It's not a travel until the right foot comes down. What if he dishes or releases a shot just before that? You're good enough to know the difference without knowing which foot is the pivot?

If he starts out at the free throw line with a foot on the floor and goes to the basket with a one, two count, when the second foot hits the floor it's a travel. If there's traffic in between or for whatever reason you can't tell left from right, it doesn't matter.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich

Not a single person in the gym is screaming for a travel at this point........

They see this play called a travel so seldom, many probably don't think it is a travel.

[OKREF]

He not only picks up his pivot foot once, but twice, without shooting or passing. This is an easy travel.

[bainsey]

I don't understand why we make this so difficult: Pivot foot up + pivot foot down = travel.

That said, the first time I had a move like this was two years ago at camp. I was the trail, and was so dumbfounded by it, I froze in silence. The camp director was right there to rightly give me an earful.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I don't understand why we make this so difficult: Pivot foot up + pivot foot down = travel.

That said, the first time I had a move like this was two years ago at camp. I was the trail, and was so dumbfounded by it, I froze in silence. The camp director was right there to rightly give me an earful.

It's not difficult. But, unlike what JAR said, we still have to identify the pivot foot and recognize it coming back down. We can't use items like, "he took too many steps" or "he covered too much distance."

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not difficult. But, unlike what JAR said, we still have to identify the pivot foot and recognize it coming back down. We can't use items like, "he took too many steps" or "he covered too much distance."

I agree. But I guess whatever works. Just get the call right. *shrugs*

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not difficult. But, unlike what JAR said, we still have to identify the pivot foot and recognize it coming back down.

Player A1 stands holding the ball with both feet on the floor. I'm on his left side. He leans toward me, faking a pass, and may or may not have lifted his right foot briefly before returning it to his original position. B1 bites on the fake and lunges for a steal. B1 now lifts his left foot, steps forward, and puts it down. He then follows with the right foot, lifts it, steps forward, and puts it down before shooting a 3. Are you telling me I can't call this a travel because I don't know which foot was the pivot in this situation?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If he starts out at the free throw line with a foot on the floor and goes to the basket with a one, two count, when the second foot hits the floor it's a travel. If there's traffic in between or for whatever reason you can't tell left from right, it doesn't matter.

Originally Posted by Rich

It's not difficult. But, unlike what JAR said, we still have to identify the pivot foot and recognize it coming back down. We can't use items like, "he took too many steps" or "he covered too much distance."

JAR is right here. You don't have to know which was the pivot foot if both feet end up in new locations. Sure, one of them was and it would be nice to know but it is a travel not matter which one was when both feet have moved to a new spot.

There is, however, a window of time after the first foot comes down and before the second foot comes down where it could be a travel and you must know which was the pivot in order to know. But, again, once the 2nd foot comes down, it doesn't really matter. You could declare either one as the pivot and still be right.

The most common place I see this is around the 3pt arc....player catches the ball on the floor and inside the arc and steps back to take a jump shot from behind the arc and didn't do a jump stop. There is no possible way to get there without a dribble without traveling.