Questioning Partner's Call

[Afrosheen]

They're not unrelated as they go to the central point of my question: How to address a partner who may have possibly kicked a rule or did not have information that you definitively have.

Read the original post JRutledge.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

They're not unrelated as they go to the central point of my question: How to address a partner who may have possibly kicked a rule or did not have information that you definitively have.

Read the original post JRutledge.

I did read the original post. You came to your partner about a call they knew they got right. You came to them questioning if they knew the rule without any information to help them change the call or show they got it wrong. And now you are trying to justify your actions by saying, "It was a rules....blah....blah....blah....."

And if I spent my time always worrying about if a partner kicked a rule on their calls, I would have to question them several times a game and I am not doing that at all. I certainly would have to do it with traveling, double dribble and closely guarded several times a game, even when a call was not actually made if I use your logic.

Peace

[Afrosheen]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did read the original post. You came to your partner about a call they knew they got right. You came to them questioning if they knew the rule without any information to help them change the call or show they got it wrong. And now you are trying to justify your actions by saying, "It was a rules....blah....blah....blah....."

And if I spent my time always worrying about if a partner kicked a rule on their calls, I would have to question them several times a game and I am not doing that at all. I certainly would have to do it with traveling, double dribble and closely guarded several times a game, even when a call was not actually made if I use your logic.

Peace

I asked this in my high school unit and what it came down to is that since most varsity games are taped or possibly televised, that the partners (who know when it is prudent to confer with their partner) to give the calling official a second opportunity to consider what happened in the play. If he still comes back to the same conclusion, as a crew you go with it. But now the other official(s) are in the clear if it was a kicked rule after all as it would be evidenced by the tape that could be watched after the game is over.

As far your worries, then I don't know what to tell you. Conferring with your partner is still a judgment call as I believe it is up to the officials to understand when it is prudent to approach your partner on a possibly botched call. And in this thread there is evidence of such a play shown on video. Though if you don't think it is ever prudent, then that's on you. But to tell me that I'm wrong merely based on the latter is foolish.

[JRutledge]

I did not say anything about it was never prudent to come to a partner. Not only do I go to partners on calls they ask for help, I have gone to them when I see the entire play. Unlike you I come with definitive information, not questions. This is also something I talk about in pre-game every time. Did you do that in your situations?

And BTW, I have had officials come to me on a BC violation a few times and usually they are asking questions of things they did not see, like coming to me saying, "The ball was tipped." Well that is great, but what the hell does that question have to do with who was the first to touch the ball in the BC and the last to touch the ball in the FC? Absolutely nothing. And in those case at least the official that said something had some dual area. You had no dual area in your insistence you were doing the right thing.

I had a situation last year where I was the New Trail on a press coverage defense and a pass was thrown to the middle of the court and the Center called a BC violation that involved multiple touches of the ball. The coach wanted me to change the call and my answer to him was simple, "He is standing right there, neither you or I saw what he saw." I was no where near the division line or the play and if I questioned his call that would have been the wrong thing to do considering I had no information or anything to add. The official was a playoff officials with similar experience I had and if he did not know the rule, nothing I could do in that situation to do to help him. And I am pretty confident he knew the rule. And I told the coach, if you want an explanation, "Ask him when he gets over here, I am sure he will tell you what he saw." We did not hold up the game, we did not need to discuss the play on the court. We did discuss the play in the locker room (like I told you to do) and he confirmed what he saw and why it was a violation. Actually my partner confirmed what I already knew. I guess you feel I should tell him how much more I know than him, even with the fact I did not see the play in question.

Peace

[Afrosheen]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not say anything about it was never prudent to come to a partner. Not only do I go to partners on calls they ask for help, I have gone to them when I see the entire play. Unlike you I come with definitive information, not questions. This is also something I talk about in pre-game every time. Did you do that in your situations?

The only time I'm coming up to my partner on a play like I had where I'm not on top of the play is when my partner might be kicking the rule, and I say might because of the very fact that I'm not on top of the play as I did not have definitive knowledge. Unfortunately, in this instance, my approach was bad as I did not make my request to confer to be short and quick and respectful, and that I will change.

Still I will go up to my partner when he possibly kicked a rule. For instance, in my first year of officiating I called a ten second count in the backcourt during the girls game. If my partner did not come up to me and tell me there isn't a ten second count in girls, it would have been a situation where my ego, pride, self-respect added insult to injury as my ignorance of the rules was not corrected because my partner did not want to "offend" me. Screw that. If I'm ignorant of something, whether it's the rules or anything definitive that my partner saw, I'm more than willing to consider what he has to say if he wants to confer. And thus vice a versa. That's how it should be.

Check your egos at the door, this is a basketball game, and you're the officials whose purpose is to maintain the integrity of the game.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I had a situation last year where I was the New Trail on a press coverage defense and a pass was thrown to the middle of the court and the Center called a BC violation that involved multiple touches of the ball. The coach wanted me to change the call and my answer to him was simple, "He is standing right there, neither you or I saw what he saw." I was no where near the division line or the play and if I questioned his call that would have been the wrong thing to do considering I had no information or anything to add. The official was a playoff officials with similar experience I had and if he did not know the rule, nothing I could do in that situation to do to help him. And I am pretty confident he knew the rule. And I told the coach, if you want an explanation, "Ask him when he gets over here, I am sure he will tell you what he saw." We did not hold up the game, we did not need to discuss the play on the court. We did discuss the play in the locker room (like I told you to do) and he confirmed what he saw and why it was a violation. Actually my partner confirmed what I already knew. I guess you feel I should tell him how much more I know than him, even with the fact I did not see the play in question.

Peace

If it's a rule botch as in the video that AremRed posted, it doesn't matter what your positioning is as your position doesn't mean that the rules all of a sudden change. I would still go up to him and tell him the rule and ask him if the player violated that rule. If he says yes, I'm running back to my spot.