Rebounding Contact (video)

[JetMetFan]

Thoughts? My initial ones concerned positioning and "How late is too late?"

[JRutledge]

Looks like a foul to me. The guy in white pulls down the guy in blue.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Yeah, that was quit a bit late...I'm guessing he didn't even call a foul but stopped play for an injury????

That needs to be a foul long before that whistle. That is enough contact that possession consequence is no longer a factor.

[JRutledge]

It looks like no foul was called. It does look like they only stopped play for the injury situation.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Foul. And, of course, we wouldn't report it to the table as, "Over the back".

With apologies to John Lennon: Imagine if blue hadn't kept possession after the contact, and fall to the floor, by the blue player? Imagine if the ball had gone out of bounds off the falling blue player? Imagine, if somehow, white had come up with the offensive rebound, and worse, an easy put back "bunny? Imagine the officials standing there with the whistles still in their mouths. Imagine the blue coach getting a technical foul, or worse, getting tossed.

[JetMetFan]

I should have mentioned in the OP...no foul was called. The whistle was due to the injury.

This fell into the "elephant" category for me. I can kind of see why the L didn't call it since he was too close. The only reason I can think of why the T didn't call it was he must've figured "Well, Blue is going to get the ball anyway..."

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

This fell into the "elephant" category for me. I can kind of see why the L didn't call it since he was too close. The only reason I can think of why the T didn't call it was he must've figured "Well, Blue is going to get the ball anyway..."

Felony or elephant, it would have helped if the L had backed out from closedown once the shot went up. Also would have helped if the C was anywhere near where he was supposed to be.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I should have mentioned in the OP...no foul was called. The whistle was due to the injury.

This fell into the "elephant" category for me. I can kind of see why the L didn't call it since he was too close. The only reason I can think of why the T didn't call it was he must've figured "Well, Blue is going to get the ball anyway..."

You're being way too generous to the Lead, he simply missed a foul in his primary.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You're being way too generous to the Lead, he simply missed a foul in his primary.

Yeah, I know. Of course, the T could have helped. A lot.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Felony or elephant, it would have helped if the L had backed out from closedown once the shot went up. Also would have helped if the C was anywhere near where he was supposed to be.

Check out the movement of the crew as the shot goes up. The C is backing out and the T is moving down. They both anticipated a rotation that never came. At the 6:40 mark the C was in the A position then he started closing down. He made it to B then stopped but the other guys kept moving. The movement really put the T in a great spot but he just missed it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

....

Check out the movement of the crew as the shot goes up. The C is backing out and the T is moving down. They both anticipated a rotation that never came. At the 6:40 mark the C Lead was in the A position then he started closing down. He made it to B then stopped but the other guys kept moving. The movement really put the T in a great spot but he just missed it.

The C has no business backing out anticipating a rotation. He should have stayed put officiate the shot then closed down to help with rebounding.

[BillyMac]

I'm not at all familiar with three person mechanics, but I can try to put a two person spin on this (I'm what you call, an expert, in two person mechanics, officiating here in the Land That Time Forgot).

Like BadNewsRef stated, the Lead blew his call. Period. Now, if I'm the Trail here, even knowing the difference between an ant, and an elephant, I'm probably going to hesitate for a split second because it's a call outside of my primary, and I'm probably thinking, "Why did the Lead pass on this play?". There are a lot of different animals along the animal spectrum between an ant, and an elephant. Maybe it was an American Bittern, for example? Maybe that hesitation is a little more than a spit second, and now I'm wondering if it's going to be a late whistle, even though I normally roll with a late whistle being a much better alternative than no whistle. While all this is being processed in my brain (my dendrites, axons, and synapses, don't fire as quickly as they used to), I spot the blue player with the ball, and now I'm thinking, "Good, we caught a break", and, as JetMetFan stated earlier, I pass on the play.

Later, during a break, I'm probably politely asking my partner what he saw on that rebounding play where the blue player fell to the floor. Any observers at the game will ask both of us the same question, and as the proverbs say, we hesitated, and now, we're lost, lost up a creek, without our paddles.

[JugglingReferee]

If in 2-person, and I'm the T when the C was, and I see it similar to the angle in the video, I give the L a chance to grab it, and if he doesn't, I will. If I'm in the position of the T in the video, I definitely grab this one.

If in 3-person, someone has to get it. Being a strong T means you grab this before bailing. The C can pick it up too. I do think the L was too close.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If in 2-person, and I'm the T when the C was, and I see it similar to the angle in the video, I give the L a chance to grab it, and if he doesn't, I will. If I'm in the position of the T in the video, I definitely grab this one.

If in 3-person, someone has to get it. Being a strong T means you grab this before bailing. The C can pick it up too. I do think the L was too close.

I agree. I thought the T gave up on the play too quickly. He starts moving down court too soon, IMO. From the time the shot goes up, his only movement is away from the play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

I thought the T gave up on the play too quickly. He starts moving down court too soon ... From the time the shot goes up, his only movement is away from the play.

Here in two person Connecticut, we are taught, from the crib, as the trail, to always take a step toward the basket on a shot. As one gracefully ages, and loses a few steps (adds a few pounds, and gets more gray hair, not that I would know anything about any of those things), one becomes inclined to take a step back on the shot to get ahead of the next play, assuming a rebound, and a transition, down to the other end of the court. We (I don't now why I used the first person, plural personal pronoun here) have to constantly fight that urge.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The C has no business backing out anticipating a rotation. He should have stayed put officiate the shot then closed down to help with rebounding.

I need to correct myself: both the C and the T were backing out when the shot went up/while the ball was in the air. There was also an "area of intersection" moment on the shot since both the C and the T went up with the three-point attempt signal. It was shot from the T's primary but given the previous pass came from the C's primary I'd like to think the T would've been off ball and left that one alone.

Of course, the fact the C had dropped back into a trail position when the action got in front of him didn't help at all.