Continuous Motion (video)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The only thing that shocks me about your response is it took so long I had the same reaction to the post as you.

It took so long because I had a scrimmage this morning for football. I am honestly not shocked it was pointed out, but I cannot believe that even a travel was even an issue.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It took so long because I had a scrimmage this morning for football. I am honestly not shocked it was pointed out, but I cannot believe that even a travel was even an issue.

Peace

I agree. I see absolutely nothing in that clip that would make me think travel. Not even close.

The shot should have counted, no question about that either.


In the second play, I don't have a foul at all....but if there was one, the basket should count.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The only thing that shocks me about your response is it took so long I had the same reaction to the post as you.

JAR, I have the dribble ending when A1 put both hands on the ball which would make him legal. Where do you have the dribble ending?

his left foot is on the floor when he puts both hands on the ball. it returns to the floor before the release.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

In the second play, I don't have a foul at all....but if there was one, the basket should count.

That is why I called it possiblity a "game interrupter." People do not like the term, but it seems like nothing prevented the player from movement or opportunity to complete a play.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

his left foot is on the floor when he puts both hands on the ball. it returns to the floor before the release.

That is not even close to accurate. A supervisor would not be too happy if you tried to defend that judgment.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That is not even close to accurate. A supervisor would not be too happy if you tried to defend that judgment.

I was describing the play from memory which turned out to be lacking. From this angle, I can't actually tell when the second hand touches the ball, but it had returned from the floor and was in the right hand with the left foot on the floor. Would anybody call this in real time? Probably not. I was offering a possible suggestion why he wouldn't count the basket. I would prefer no call at all here to waving off the basket.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I was describing the play from memory which turned out to be lacking. From this angle, I can't actually tell when the second hand touches the ball, but it had returned from the floor and was in the right hand with the left foot on the floor. Would anybody call this in real time? Probably not. I was offering a possible suggestion why he wouldn't count the basket. I would prefer no call at all here to waving off the basket.

Sadly, he was pointing at the floor. As if that has any bearing on the ruling.

[canuckrefguy]

Not gonna micromanage a travel on this play. Not even close, IMO. And if a better view reveals a travel, IMO it was caused by the contact. Foul and two shots.

First play is a clear and-one. FIBA actually addressed this a year or so ago, pointing out the tendency to incorrectly wave off shot attempts and FG's. You are splitting hairs at the atomic level calling this 'on the floor'.

Second play = no foul. At all.

[Sharpshooternes]

I too would count the first as an easy and one, with the second being nothing but some incidental contact that had no bearing on the play. He got beat and he got scored on. Nothing more to it.

[swerv17]

What happens after the dribble ends and the ball is gathered? That will help in determining if you should count the basket and/or give a bonus free throw, or give the ball out of bounds. I was watching a bunch of replays from random games over the weekend and we as officials are not good at this. If the ball isn't being released from the chest or eye level, we seem content to not award the basket. So many times, the habitual shooting motion starts at the knees or hips. We must continue to use video review to improve at this. I had an excellent clinician at one of my camps this summer hammer this point home. Several times, she was telling officials that they should have counted the basket. The season will be here before you know it! Let's all get better at this.

[ballgame99]

Let me pile on...

First one is good, and one. Not even close really. No travel either.

Second one is a weak call, but counting the bucket is right if the foul was called.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by swerv17

We must continue to use video review to improve at this...The season will be here before you know it! Let's all get better at this.

Originally Posted by canuckrefguy

You are splitting hairs at the atomic level calling this 'on the floor'.

One way to "get better at this" is, whether amongst your crew, your group, or your association, to abolish the term "on the floor." That phrase is irrelevant in relation to whether or not the act of shooting had begun prior to the foul.
In your area, work on getting your fellow officials to say "No shot" or "Act of shooting", and, with an understanding of the definition of act of shooting (4-41-1,3), the incidence of depriving the deserved award will lessen significantly over time.
It's working well here. Hope it works well there.
BTW, the FIBA video lesson on this rule ("Act of Shooting") is really very good. Used it in a rules meeting. We could even understand the Canadian language.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Freddy

One way to "get better at this" is, whether amongst your crew, your group, or your association, to abolish the term "on the floor." That phrase is irrelevant in relation to whether or not the act of shooting had begun prior to the foul.
In your area, work on getting your fellow officials to say "No shot" or "Act of shooting", and, with an understanding of the definition of act of shooting (4-41-1,3), the incidence of depriving the deserved award will lessen significantly over time.
It's working well here. Hope it works well there.
BTW, the FIBA video lesson on this rule ("Act of Shooting") is really very good. Used it in a rules meeting. We could even understand the Canadian language.

Many of us do not use that term and it gets used by many anyway.

Peace

[blindzebra]

As others have said should count on 1, nothing on 2.

I will add on 2 if you aren't counting it 20 seconds earlier on the other end that one should not be an in one either. Even more reason to pass on it as lead.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

"On the floor."

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Many of us do not use that term and it gets used by many anyway.

I played a lot of basketball when I was a teen, almost 45 years ago, and I don't remember referees (that's what we called them back then) ever saying, "On the floor". Even going back thirty-plus years to the beginning of my officiating career, I don't remember officials saying that. Exactly when did this start? Who started it?