Continuous Motion

[slow whistle]

Fri night BV hotly contested league game.... A1 goes from top of the key drives the right side of the lane and goes into a jump stop. As he is in the air going into his jump stop B1 puts two hands in his back and pushes. B1 then goes up off of two feet and scores. From C I come in and get the foul and I score the goal as I judged that this was part of A1's normal shooting motion - in fact A1 (team A's star player) has completed this same motion 3 or 4 times already in the game with the jump stop and then up with the shot. Of course this is right in front of team B HC and he is, let's say "not happy" that I scored the goal...I reported the foul and then explained to him that I judged the jump stop to be part of A1's shooting motion...part of what he was mad about I believe is that A1 had already done this 3 or 4 times to his team, he was even yelling "you're giving that to HIM!?!?!" I realize this may be a tough call without seeing it, but what is the consensus out there? Jump stop part of continuous motion? Appears to be nothing that definitively rules it out from the rule & case plays that I have read, but I appreciate the feedback..

[Scrapper1]

If the push was before A1 landed, then I would not award continuous motion. In other words, if the sequence was

• A1 jumps off one foot
• B1 pushes A1
• A1 lands on two feet
• A1 jumps and shoots the ball

I think the foul has occurred before the start of the shooting motion. So he's not allowed to complete the motion and score. JMO, without seeing it.

EDIT: It would be different if you thought that A1 was actually trying to shoot the ball when he jumped off one foot. If you feel that B1's foul stopped his act of shooting and forced him to land, then it's a shooting foul. But if the jump was obviously part of the jump stop, no free throws from me.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If the push was before A1 landed, then I would not award continuous motion. In other words, if the sequence was

• A1 jumps off one foot
• B1 pushes A1
• A1 lands on two feet
• A1 jumps and shoots the ball

I think the foul has occurred before the start of the shooting motion. So he's not allowed to complete the motion and score. JMO, without seeing it.

EDIT: It would be different if you thought that A1 was actually trying to shoot the ball when he jumped off one foot. If you feel that B1's foul stopped his act of shooting and forced him to land, then it's a shooting foul. But if the jump was obviously part of the jump stop, no free throws from me.

That is essentially the sequence and I don't believe he was going up off of one foot, but couldn't this be considered part of the "usual foot or body movement in any activity" that A1 is allowed if pivoting or stepping (Fed CB 6.7 Comment - admittedly doesn't mention jump stop) that is allowed per the continous motion provision? He never put the ball back on the ground...the fact that he has already made this same motion and shot the ball doesn't hold any weight as far as being part of his "usual shooting motion"?

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Fri night BV hotly contested league game.... A1 goes from top of the key drives the right side of the lane and goes into a jump stop. As he is in the air going into his jump stop B1 puts two hands in his back and pushes. B1 then goes up off of two feet and scores. From C I come in and get the foul and I score the goal as I judged that this was part of A1's normal shooting motion - in fact A1 (team A's star player) has completed this same motion 3 or 4 times already in the game with the jump stop and then up with the shot. Of course this is right in front of team B HC and he is, let's say "not happy" that I scored the goal...I reported the foul and then explained to him that I judged the jump stop to be part of A1's shooting motion...part of what he was mad about I believe is that A1 had already done this 3 or 4 times to his team, he was even yelling "you're giving that to HIM!?!?!" I realize this may be a tough call without seeing it, but what is the consensus out there? Jump stop part of continuous motion? Appears to be nothing that definitively rules it out from the rule & case plays that I have read, but I appreciate the feedback..

I'm CoachA1...I want Intentional. How is B1 playing the ball?

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by CoachP

I'm CoachA1...I want Intentional. How is B1 playing the ball?

Ha I was waiting for that....sorry coach I blew that one...however I could argue after getting torched by A1, in traffic B1 reached for the ball and ran into A1's back instead as he was trying to pick his jock up off the floor...

[CoachP]

Oh, I see A1 scored, too...so therefore you cannot have an intentional foul if A1 makes the shot.....



I had that called last year.....

I know, I know, I should have whipped out my rulebook!

[chartrusepengui]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If the push was before A1 landed, then I would not award continuous motion. In other words, if the sequence was

• A1 jumps off one foot
• B1 pushes A1
• A1 lands on two feet
• A1 jumps and shoots the ball

I think the foul has occurred before the start of the shooting motion. So he's not allowed to complete the motion and score. JMO, without seeing it.

EDIT: It would be different if you thought that A1 was actually trying to shoot the ball when he jumped off one foot. If you feel that B1's foul stopped his act of shooting and forced him to land, then it's a shooting foul. But if the jump was obviously part of the jump stop, no free throws from me.

what he said!

Originally Posted by CoachP

Oh, I see A1 scored, too...so therefore you cannot have an intentional foul if A1 makes the shot.....



I had that called last year.....

I know, I know, I should have whipped out my rulebook!

You can still have an intentional if the shot is good. Just because the shot goes doesn't negate an intentional foul. Penalty for this is still 2 shots and the ball and the basket is still counted if it goes.

[slow whistle]

Originally Posted by Jerry Blum

You can still have an intentional if the shot is good. Just because the shot goes doesn't negate an intentional foul. Penalty for this is still 2 shots and the ball and the basket is still counted if it goes.

Me thinks CoachP was being sarcastic...which is suprising b/c coaches are never sarcastic???

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by slow whistle

Me thinks CoachP was being sarcastic...which is suprising b/c coaches are never sarcastic???

Yup! Therefore the "rolls eyes (sarcastic) emoticon!

But MY play was true. Trail came in with Intentional foul and Lead waved it off because the basket was good. They confer'd and gave her an "and 1".

We had the game in hand by then so I didn't whip out the rule book!

And then the same play happened 3 minutes later except A1 missed. 2 shots and ball.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If the push was before A1 landed, then I would not award continuous motion. In other words, if the sequence was

• A1 jumps off one foot
• B1 pushes A1
• A1 lands on two feet
• A1 jumps and shoots the ball

I think the foul has occurred before the start of the shooting motion. So he's not allowed to complete the motion and score. JMO, without seeing it.

EDIT: It would be different if you thought that A1 was actually trying to shoot the ball when he jumped off one foot. If you feel that B1's foul stopped his act of shooting and forced him to land, then it's a shooting foul. But if the jump was obviously part of the jump stop, no free throws from me.

I disagree, I think this can be included in the habitual shooting motion; just like on a layup.

[OHBBREF]

I do not think that you can call this a shooting foul becuase of the jump stop.

here is the reason if the player gathers and goes up directly it is the normal shooting motion.
however if the play executes a jump stop, that is another motion completly, then they go up it would be the shooting motion.
So IMHO if the player is fouled and then "Jump Stop" we are on the floor the foul is not shooting because the "Stop" means that is what they did, and that is not continuos motion by definition.

You can tell if the player was fouled hard enough to cause them not to be able to complete the shooting motion and very rarely is the ball going up while a player is executing a jump stop as it would be if they were in the middle of try. So for those of you who say that we can not make the judgment as to what they were doing once the ball was gathered I beg to differ in this case.

[Adam]

Let me just ask this:

If a player on his way to a layup is fouled prior to planting his final foot, do you give him continuous motion?

[OHBBREF]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Let me just ask this:

If a player on his way to a layup is fouled prior to planting his final foot, do you give him continuous motion?

on a lay up I do - because that is part of the motion of going to the basket, executing a Jump Stop is coming from one legal position to another and pausing ever so slightly then continuing on.

in that process as I said the ball is rarely being lifted to the basket, it usually comes down and then goes back up. and that is not a part of the habitual shooting motion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

on a lay up I do - because that is part of the motion of going to the basket, executing a Jump Stop is coming from one legal position to another and pausing ever so slightly then continuing on.

in that process as I said the ball is rarely being lifted to the basket, it usually comes down and then goes back up. and that is not a part of the habitual shooting motion.

Why?

I don't think the blue is relevant.

How many layups do you see that start with the ball moving down once it's gathered? Quite a few.