Block-Charges (video)

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I don't consider it saving the crew by getting the call wrong. I don't think an official should jump in unless they have the view to get it right. He didn't.

It's saving the crew because something had to be called and I can't say one way or another whether he missed it. Neither can the population at-large, apparently, since there are differing opinions in the thread.

As for having a good look at it, on the end zone replay it shows the T stepped down below the 28-foot line before making the call. He didn't jump in. He followed the play, waited then reacted. If you want to take someone to task, I think it would be the L.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

So, when there is a dbl whistle on such plays, how do you sort it out? In your pre-game conference w/partners, what do you do to define your crew's method of determining who takes the call?

All officials do not see the same things or the entire play, so you can pre-game all you like but that is not going to stop an official that sees a foul to judge this as a foul and call it. Both of these plays IMO can have either official make these calls if they see something. If you have a double whistle, then it usually goes to the primary. Or in some cases if the person saw the beginning of the play is likely going to watch the entire play and make the right call. This is an ebb and flow situation where you have to adjust to each play.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It's saving the crew because something had to be called and I can't say one way or another whether he missed it. Neither can the population at-large, apparently, since there are differing opinions in the thread.

I really don't see how, using the replay, anyone can come to any conclusion other than a block. There is one angle gives such a good view that it no longer involves judgement. From the replay showing the shooter coming straight at the camera, it is very clear that there was nothing in her path at the time she went airborne. Once you see that, it is merely a matter of rule. It can only be a block if the shooter is airborne before anyone is in their path.

At live speed from the positions of the officials or from several camera angles, it can look like a charge and I can how they might think it was a charge but that doesn't make it the right call when there is one angle which clearly shows it is not.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

saving the crew

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It's saving the crew because something had to be called

I was at a camp in April where several D1 clinicians emphasized to me NEVER to call in someone else's area (obviously not including secondary areas) unless it was a game-saving call. Of course, this means you have to trust your partners to take care of their areas. According to their logic, this is not a game-saving call and thus should not be touched by the T.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I was at a camp in April where several D1 clinicians emphasized to me NEVER to call in someone else's area (obviously not including secondary areas) unless it was a game-saving call. Of course, this means you have to trust your partners to take care of their areas. According to their logic, this is not a game-saving call and thus should not be touched by the T.

Arem -

I don't disagree, however when you have a crash / wreck / multiple bodies on the floor are you passing because you are working with Karl Hess and zTony Greene????

If they have a brain cramp and you come get that and you are right, regardless of time and score, two things are gonna happen. They will appreciate it and you will gain the trust of John Clougherty or John Cahill.....

Just my opinion....

[Multiple Sports]

Arem -

I'm curious....what part of the country was this camp and was it men's or women's....

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I was at a camp in April where several D1 clinicians emphasized to me NEVER to call in someone else's area (obviously not including secondary areas) unless it was a game-saving call. Of course, this means you have to trust your partners to take care of their areas. According to their logic, this is not a game-saving call and thus should not be touched by the T.

I have had D1 clinicians make it very clear that if we pass on plays like that, bad things could happen. I know I was at a camp in Texas and there was a play that I had the worst angle to call something and we all got admonished for not making a call that looked really bad and all of us passed on. And these are not plays that should be passed on. Something should be called with this much contact and players basically on the floor. Not all obvious fouls are game saving in nature.

Peace

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have had D1 clinicians make it very clear that if we pass on plays like that, bad things could happen. I know I was at a camp in Texas and there was a play that I had the worst angle to call something and we all got admonished for not making a call that looked really bad and all of us passed on. And these are not plays that should be passed on. Something should be called with this much contact and players basically on the floor. Not all obvious fouls are game saving in nature.

Peace

Rut -

Was this one of Curtis Shaw's camps ?????

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Arem -

I'm curious....what part of the country was this camp and was it men's or women's....

Midwest, men's camp.

I totally get what you mean. I would make this call as the T if my partner has a brain fart. I agree that calls like this should not be passed on, and hopefully my partner would be thankful.

However, a women's camp I went to (D1 officials, midwest) also told me the same thing. "If your partner passed on something in his area, he must have had a reason. Do not call outside your area unless it is a game saving call." For example, this no-call that the T could have saved.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Midwest, men's camp.

I totally get what you mean. I would make this call as the T if my partner has a brain fart. I agree that calls like this should not be passed on, and hopefully my partner would be thankful.

However, a women's camp I went to (D1 officials, midwest) also told me the same thing. "If your partner passed on something in his area, he must have had a reason. Do not call outside your area unless it is a game saving call." For example, this no-call that the T could have saved.

The main thing would be the type of play your partner passed on. If there's an iffy play in his/her area, they let it go and then you come in and take it...that falls into the area of "trust your partner." As Jeff said, this is a case of bodies hitting the floor and it wasn't just incidental contact. Someone had to do something. It may/may not have been the right call but no whistle on that play is much worse. I have a feeling the officials you spoke with at the D1 women's camp would say the same thing.

On a side note...I worked with the L on play #1 at a camp in July. It took me a few times watching the video to realize it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Rut -

Was this one of Curtis Shaw's camps ?????

Nope. I have never been to any of Shaw's camps.

Peace

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

The main thing would be the type of play your partner passed on. If there's an iffy play in his/her area, they let it go and then you come in and take it...that falls into the area of "trust your partner." As Jeff said, this is a case of bodies hitting the floor and it wasn't just incidental contact. Someone had to do something. It may/may not have been the right call but no whistle on that play is much worse. I have a feeling the officials you spoke with at the D1 women's camp would say the same thing.

Yep, totally agree on this. However I am stuck trying to figure out why those guys didn't say this. I was surprised at how vehemently they told me never to call outside my areas.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Yep, totally agree on this. However I am stuck trying to figure out why those guys didn't say this. I was surprised at how vehemently they told me never to call outside my areas.

Because it was camp.

[Travelling Man]

play 1: here's a common case where a "play on" could be justified, but the fact that bodies were splayed across the floor would compel a "charge" to be called given that the defender was in LGP--at least from the T's position--though I wondered why the L did not make the call?

Play 2: I agree with the "block" call.

thanks for posting this fine vid.

[OKREF]

Play 1. Block. Defense isn't in position prior to shooter leaving the floor.

Play 2. Charge. From the first angle it looks like a block. However from baseline, it seems the defense got to the spot first.