You call yourself a Referee, but You never played varsity hoop?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I get the feeling the OP just wanted everyone to know she played Varsity and college basketball to establish some aspect of credibility here. Based on her posts so far, if that was her goal, I think she failed.

I got the impression that she's had these deep thoughts brewing in her for some time and she thought it would be helpful to share them with the officiating world now that she's found an outlet that will facilitate that.

I can relate. The world is entitled to my opinions, after all.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Adam

I got the impression that she's had these deep thoughts brewing in her for some time and she thought it would be helpful to share them with the officiating world now that she's found an outlet that will facilitate that.

I can relate. The world is entitled to my opinions, after all.

Sounds pretty much like all of us at one point or another.

Basically we have a poster who - compared to many of us - is fairly new at this, and is wanting to share his/her deep thoughts on the issues of officiating. Some don't like the new people expressing their opinions and so they fire back. Others of us just smile and remember ourselves 10, 15, 20 years ago and don't get all worked up over it.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

I don't mean to sound erudite

The irony of you using that word is fairly hilarious.

[Travelling Man]

Originally Posted by Brad

The irony of you using that word is fairly hilarious.

Not sure why you are using examples from your 7th grade hoop playing experience to rationalize your point. Also I"m not sure that you know the definition of "erudition"--if so you'd have understood the context in which it was used.

Now, let me turn my attention to the key issue that inheres. When I used to umpire baseball I knew that some of my fellow umps were "pitcher's umps' and some
were "hitter's umps" in terms of what strike zone allowances they accorded.
I'm a "defensive ref" because as a result of playing I know the feigning offensive sets tend to use. I don't give offenses a bias--I make them earn it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

*I'm so sorry you got cut from your ymca team, it's evident you have not gotten over it yet. Not sure why you are using examples from your 7th grade hoop playing experience to rationalize your point. Also I"m not sure that you know the definition of "erudition"--if so you'd have understood the context in which it was used.

Now, let me turn my attention to the key issue that inheres. When I used to umpire baseball I knew that some of my fellow umps were "pitcher's umps' and some
were "hitter's umps" in terms of what strike zone allowances they accorded.
I'm a "defensive ref" because as a result of playing I know the feigning offensive sets tend to use. I don't give offenses a bias--I make them earn it.

What in the hell are you talking about? Pitcher umps?

I umpired for some years and played each of my sports in high school at some point and I have never heard of someone being a "pitcher's ump."

It is clear that you are trying to spew some wisdom to something that really does not need that much conversation. Who cares if you played, that does not make you a good official. It might help on the front end to learn some rules and understand the strategy of the game, which can help you officiate. But playing does not mean you know the game better than others that officiate it for years. Actually many that played cannot get over their mentality of being a player and instead of calling the game based on rules, they call the game based off of expectations as a player. Stop trying to convince everyone how knowledgable you are in some statements and let the collective body of work prove that over some time. And no, it will not take long to prove to others you know what you are doing. But you are certainly off to a bad start.

Peace

[Brad]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is clear that you are trying to spew some wisdom to something that really does not need that much conversation.

Rut, you have been known to “spew” every now and then yourself*…*but this is one of the best things you have ever said.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Also I"m not sure that you know the definition of "erudition"--if so you'd have understood the context in which it was used.

His point is that your efforts to show your intelligence (in spite of your claim to the contrary) and learning are backfiring. You're likely very intelligent, but you're not coming across that way. It's coming across as someone trying to use words just a bit out of her league in order to impress a bunch of strangers.

Honestly, it reads like a freshman comp paper that's trying just a bit too hard to impress the professor.

If you want to get the most out of this forum, I'd recommend a bit more moderation in your approach. You're diving into a fairly well established social group, and that's terrific.

[asdf]

Hitter's Umps, Pitcher's Umps, Offensive Refs, Defensive Refs, If you haven't played the game you aren't going to be very good......

Once you quit dropping the TV announcer cliche's on the group, you'll enhance your credibility.

[Kelvin green]

Here are my couple of cents.. Players may have a sense about the game...but that does not make a great referee. Good referees study the game and study officiating. They know the rules.

I think I am a good referee, I have been to camps, I think I understand the game, I watch video and games and discuss calls all the time about calls...I never played Varsity basketball ....

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Not sure why you are using examples from your 7th grade hoop playing experience to rationalize your point.

Never mentioned anything about 7th grade.

Why wouldn't my experience be relevant to making my point? You used your experience to rationalize your point. What other experiences do we have to base things on other than our own?

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Also I"m not sure that you know the definition of "erudition"--if so you'd have understood the context in which it was used.

Yes, I understand it. You are basically saying, “I don't want to come off as thinking I am smarter than everyone else.” … The irony is that by using a word that is so uncommon, you are actually coming off exactly like that. It's irony. You know, ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife and such.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

I'm so sorry you got cut from your ymca team, it's evident you have not gotten over it yet.

I see the mods deleted this part, but it got quoted. I'm kind of glad it did because it shows your mindset and attitude.

I may not have been a successful high-school athlete, but I certainly had success in officiating. In one D1 game I worked one of the assistant coaches was being a huge pain—chirping about calls, etc. The veteran official I was working with went over to him during a media time-out, pointed his finger at him, and gave him some advice that would serve you well as you try to move up the officiating ladder:

“Hey! Don't be an ass-h&%e.”

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

for example I can see how they get annoyed by pesky defenders which causes them to commit violations, how they experience stress of waning time and being down by 1 or 2 pts and the urgency that envelopes them, and also I know how they feign fouls--like initiating contact on drives when defender has LGP and they are looking to exploit the "gray areas" of the call. (i.e., 'flopping')

You do not have to play high school or college ball to see these things —*they are easily learnable, if not simply obvious from the get go.

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Also, there are just some aspects of hoop that I cannot verbalize but I can sense during a game--simply because I've been in the same situation that the players have been in.

What's better imo is when you have been in the same situation before as an official. It's a completely different perspective —*one that almost no one thinks about during their playing years.

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

officials who have not played competitive hoop are more prone to be duped by players who are prone to deceptive feigning.

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

I'm sorry to say this and will likey recieve feedback from the posters here.

Why are you sorry it will receive feedback? That's what this entire forum is about —*the idea that no single individual possesses all of the knowledge on any given topic, including officiating.

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Yet, it also begs the question: can a coach who has never played varsity actually be an excellent varsity level coach?

Clearly. Many very successful coaches at every level —*high school, college, NBA did not play or were poor players.

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Can a ref who has never played in the nba be a good nba ref? But that is not really the point here.

Since there are only two NBA referees that ever played in the NBA, I would say so. Maybe look at their performance compared to others and see how much their playing experience had an impact.

I did not play high school ball. Well, I did, on the 9th grade B team for about half a season before I quit because, well, I sucked (and, thus, got almost no playing time). Plus, I was also a year younger than everyone else and, honestly, probably didn't want it enough.

As an official I had great success — moved up in my high school chapter quickly, hired to work college ball 5 years in, then 3 years later hired to work NCAA D1 Men's (which I worked for 7 years before I took a "year off" to focus on my business and family).

So, yes, you can be successful as an official without having been successful as a player. I'm sure that your experience helps you, but not all former players make the transition to official so easily and it can be a hindrance to some. Any experience that gives you greater insight into the game is great though. So, my suggestion is put that experience to use for yourself—but don't hold it against others if they haven't had the same experience as you.

[w_sohl]

and I never played HS ball. I also call myself a head linesman/line judge and I never played football (except for with my buds in the back yard). Ane I call myself an umpire and I never played t-ball or any form of organized baseball, unless you count slow pitch softball.

And I know the rules better and how to apply them better than any player or coach in all of those sports.

Was there a sharper learning curve? ABSOLUTELY, but I study and learned to work in the grey area and not the black and white.

(And I'm thinking about calling myself a volleyball referee and I've only played intramurals and and in the pool.)

[JRutledge]

A lot of very accomplished officials worked other sports at some point. As a matter of fact I cannot say that I know any that worked D1 for example in my area that did not do some other sport on some level. Maybe they were not the top varsity or college official in those sports, but they did other sports. And usually when you work other sports you see another sport as another learning experience as to how to deal with players and coaches on some level.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by potato

But i seriously doubt there's any refs whom never played a basketball game ever.

At the point I started refereeing basketball, I had never played outside of gym class. Since then I've probably played 5 rec games. I suppose that doesn't technically count as not having played basketball ever, but I don't consider myself to have played.