You call yourself a Referee, but You never played varsity hoop?

[Kelvin green]

Here are my couple of cents.. Players may have a sense about the game...but that does not make a great referee. Good referees study the game and study officiating. They know the rules.

I think I am a good referee, I have been to camps, I think I understand the game, I watch video and games and discuss calls all the time about calls...I never played Varsity basketball ....

[grunewar]

Guess Sarah Thomas has no shot at success as the first permanent, female NFL referee........

[Texas Aggie]

I played more baseball than any other sport -- including a year at the juco level. The first time I got behind the plate to umpire, I hated it. I played HS varsity hoops but not varsity football (9th grade only). I work both sports and have done pretty well at them.

A kid for who basketball is not a priority but still plays on the JV team can make a capable official, just like a superstar hoops player may not be worth a darn in stripes or as a coach. The best coaches are often those players who had some talent but worked their butt off to achieve it and continued working hard at all levels.

There is a misconception that we miss calls because we don't understand the game. By "miss calls," they mean the call didn't go their way.

[Raymond]

The one aspect of playing basketball (organized and high-level pick-up) that has helped me personally is that I am keenly aware of flash points and potential bad behavior. It is something that has been intuitive since my first days of officiating, not something I had to learn.

Of course I am only speaking for myself and my experiences.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It is something that has been intuitive since my first days of officiating, not something I had to learn.

The nuances of game management is where experience can help quite a bit...though I found my experience officiating other sports translated very well to basketball in this case.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I found my experience officiating other sports translated very well to basketball.

I've heard from colleagues that the opposite can also be true, especially those who picked up volleyball (a real money making racket, according to them, especially those guys who are available in the late afternoon, toughest part is climbing the ladder), soccer, and lacrosse. We have a college lacrosse guy on our local basketball board, an outstanding basketball official, who has also achieved success working Division I college lacrosse, without ever having played lacrosse. Many of my basketball colleagues have started officiating high school volleyball, and have seen success, officiating state tournament games, without ever having played interscholastic volleyball, maybe just some volleyball in a middle school, or a high school, physical education class, many years, many pounds, and many hairs, ago.

[w_sohl]

and I never played HS ball. I also call myself a head linesman/line judge and I never played football (except for with my buds in the back yard). Ane I call myself an umpire and I never played t-ball or any form of organized baseball, unless you count slow pitch softball.

And I know the rules better and how to apply them better than any player or coach in all of those sports.

Was there a sharper learning curve? ABSOLUTELY, but I study and learned to work in the grey area and not the black and white.

(And I'm thinking about calling myself a volleyball referee and I've only played intramurals and and in the pool.)

[JRutledge]

A lot of very accomplished officials worked other sports at some point. As a matter of fact I cannot say that I know any that worked D1 for example in my area that did not do some other sport on some level. Maybe they were not the top varsity or college official in those sports, but they did other sports. And usually when you work other sports you see another sport as another learning experience as to how to deal with players and coaches on some level.

Peace

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by potato

But i seriously doubt there's any refs whom never played a basketball game ever.

At the point I started refereeing basketball, I had never played outside of gym class. Since then I've probably played 5 rec games. I suppose that doesn't technically count as not having played basketball ever, but I don't consider myself to have played.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Guess Sarah Thomas has no shot at success as the first permanent, female NFL referee........

For that matter, one would be left wondering whether a female official could effectively work high level boys high school basketball (the opposite question is also in play).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

I played HS varsity and small college hoop. This gives me insight on what players go through during a game, for example I can see how they get annoyed by pesky defenders which causes them to commit violations, how they experience stress of waning time and being down by 1 or 2 pts and the urgency that envelopes them, and also I know how they feign fouls--like initiating contact on drives when defender has LGP and they are looking to exploit the "gray areas" of the call. (i.e., 'flopping'). Also, there are just some aspects of hoop that I cannot verbalize but I can sense during a game--simply because I've been in the same situation that the players have been in. I know that my hoop playing experience gives me unique insight and I use it in the execution of my officiating practice. I don't mean to sound erudite, but officials who have not played competitive hoop are more prone to be duped by players who are prone to deceptive feigning.
I'm sorry to say this and will likey recieve feedback from the posters here. Yet, it also begs the question: can a coach who has never played varsity actually be an excellent varsity level coach? Can a ref who has never played in the nba be a good nba ref? But that is not really the point here.

It certainly helps to have played. It is beneficial in the ways that you state, but also it means that the person has a passion for the game and enjoys being around it, which is probably even more important. People will do what they enjoy and put in the time to improve.
I played FR and JV basketball in HS, but due to a coaching change and my average ability, I was one of the last cuts and never played a minute of Varsity. I did play three years of Varsity soccer in HS.
I've officiated both sports for almost 15 years now. Between the two, I've worked about 20 State Championship games. I'm currently working JC basketball and D1 soccer.
I will say that I strongly believe that gamesmanship and game control transfer equally across all sports. If you played one and can relate to the current athletes and coaches, and understand how people are going to try to gain an edge, then you can officiate them almost any sport. (There are a few exceptions in my opinion, such as wrestling, for which it would be considerably more difficult to officiate well without participation experience.)
I believe that I would have no problem calling softball, baseball, or american football, if I so desired. I don't because I don't have the time in my life or the passion for those games which would compel me to make the time.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

It certainly helps to have played. It is beneficial in the ways that you state, but also it means that the person has a passion for the game and enjoys being around it, which is probably even more important. People will do what they enjoy and put in the time to improve.
I played FR and JV basketball in HS, but due to a coaching change and my average ability, I was one of the last cuts and never played a minute of Varsity. I did play three years of Varsity soccer in HS.
I've officiated both sports for almost 15 years now. Between the two, I've worked about 20 State Championship games. I'm currently working JC basketball and D1 soccer.
I will say that I strongly believe that gamesmanship and game control transfer equally across all sports. If you played one and can relate to the current athletes and coaches, and understand how people are going to try to gain an edge, then you can officiate them almost any sport. (There are a few exceptions in my opinion, such as wrestling, for which it would be considerably more difficult to officiate well without participation experience.)
I believe that I would have no problem calling softball, baseball, or american football, if I so desired. I don't because I don't have the time in my life or the passion for those games which would compel me to make the time.

Definitely agree. Just to expand on this, I'd say the biggest benefit comes when you've reached the point that you have an innate, internal sense of the game and can anticipate and predict what will/should happen in a given situation. Not on an expert level or anything, but if you know enough to sense that 1 out, man on 3rd, 2-1 count might be a good time for a suicide squeeze, then you probably are plenty aware of the flow of the game. If you know the basics of when it's a run or pass down or can recognize an overpursuing defense and that a misdirection play would be wise, you've got the intuitive feel for football. You can get that feel in a variety of ways - playing is a great way but by no means the only way. It could be coaching, it could be passionate fan watching, etc.

For me, I do NOT yet have that for basketball. I know the basics, I can intelligently watch the game, I know the rules. I can process and analyze what happened. But I don't have the intuitive feel to anticipate what *should* happen. I couldn't really draw up a play or install an offense. I couldn't really coach it. And that's why I have no desire to move up too quickly - I wouldn't even think of getting to varsity for another 3-4 years (I'm 2 years in already).

[tjones1]

How in the world has this thread gone 4 pages?

What a waste of bandwidth.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Not sure why you are using examples from your 7th grade hoop playing experience to rationalize your point.

Never mentioned anything about 7th grade.

Why wouldn't my experience be relevant to making my point? You used your experience to rationalize your point. What other experiences do we have to base things on other than our own?

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

Also I"m not sure that you know the definition of "erudition"--if so you'd have understood the context in which it was used.

Yes, I understand it. You are basically saying, “I don't want to come off as thinking I am smarter than everyone else.” … The irony is that by using a word that is so uncommon, you are actually coming off exactly like that. It's irony. You know, ten thousand spoons when all you need is a knife and such.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Travelling Man

I'm so sorry you got cut from your ymca team, it's evident you have not gotten over it yet.

I see the mods deleted this part, but it got quoted. I'm kind of glad it did because it shows your mindset and attitude.

I may not have been a successful high-school athlete, but I certainly had success in officiating. In one D1 game I worked one of the assistant coaches was being a huge pain—chirping about calls, etc. The veteran official I was working with went over to him during a media time-out, pointed his finger at him, and gave him some advice that would serve you well as you try to move up the officiating ladder:

“Hey! Don't be an ass-h&%e.”