Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by johnny d

Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

Absolutely.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I have to agree with JRut on this one. In the middle of a game it isn't my responsibility to conduct a rules clinic for the players and coaches. I use spot throw-in rather than don't move. If the player and or coach, because of their lack of rule knowledge, takes that to mean they cannot move that is their problem, not mine. They will figure it out eventually or continue to put themselves at a disadvantage. As far as perpetuating myths and misconceptions, the horse is already out of the barn. Fans, players, and coaches have already been influenced by their exposure to these and their stance on the rules or plays in question isn't going to change until they actually read the rule book. Since we all know that is going to happen, worrying about the myths and misconceptions these people hold is a complete waste of time and energy.

Difference is, you're not saying "don't move."

I say, "this is your spot."

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Why would communicating with your partners be something that an official should not be doing?

I agree with you. I only say that because I was admonished by a leader in my association not to use that signal.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I agree with you. I only say that because I was admonished by a leader in my association not to use that signal.

Did the leader give a reason? Did the leader give an alternative?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

Difference is, you're not saying "don't move."

I say, "this is your spot."

So what is the difference in what you are telling them? Does a player stay their like a statue? Do they know what spot they have? Do they know what that means? Seriously, what are they getting out of your words they think they cannot do?

Peace

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Did the leader give a reason? Did the leader give an alternative?

I was using it during play. The gym did not have a team foul indicator on the scoreboard, and one team was holding for the final shot of the period. I knew the defense was at 6 fouls, so I used that signal.

I had asked this guy to stick around and watch our crew, as he had just finished his game. He asked me what was with the "hook 'em horns" signal. I told him and he said don't do that. No alternative or explanation given.

To be fair, I had just finished watching NBA playoff ball and that was a signal I saw them using in those situations. Probably not the best idea to incorporate signals from the NBA game.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So what is the difference in what you are telling them? Does a player stay their like a statue? Do they know what spot they have? Do they know what that means? Seriously, what are they getting out of your words they think they cannot do?

Peace

As has been said, you're not giving a rules clinic. If they want to know what the spot is, they can find out but at least they're not getting misled into believing they can't move. In fact, they can legally move and move a lot....forwards and backwards. Why are you telling them to not do something they are permitted to do?

If you're going to tell players anything, at least make the effort to make your statements accurate. It is OK if the statement is incomplete, just avoid things that are contrary to the truth.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As has been said, you're not giving a rules clinic. If they want to know what the spot is, they can find out but at least they're not getting misled into believing they can't move. In fact, they can legally move and move a lot....forwards and backwards. Why are you telling them to not do something they are permitted to do?

If you're going to tell players anything, at least make the effort to make your statements accurate. It is OK if the statement is incomplete, just avoid things that are contrary to the truth.

Respectfully throwing it out there... How about "You've got 36 inches (or 3 feet) wide and all the way back"? JRut, whaddaya think? (Again respectfully)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rooster

Respectfully throwing it out there... How about "You've got 36 inches (or 3 feet) wide and all the way back"? JRut, whaddaya think? (Again respectfully)

If you want to be accurate then yes. Otherwise when you say 32 inches, they really will be confused.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

As has been said, you're not giving a rules clinic. If they want to know what the spot is, they can find out but at least they're not getting misled into believing they can't move. In fact, they can legally move and move a lot....forwards and backwards. Why are you telling them to not do something they are permitted to do?

If you're going to tell players anything, at least make the effort to make your statements accurate. It is OK if the statement is incomplete, just avoid things that are contrary to the truth.

Again, I think telling them "Don't move" tells them what they cannot do, which is what many of them might think they can do. And that is run the end line. And if you tell them spot, they are not going to know if they can move forward or backward, so is that incorrect too?

I just find this as extremely splitting hairs. Even if you say "You have a Designated spot" they still are likely not to have any idea what you said to them. After all sports and rules definitions are not the same as real life or world definitions.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I've T'd a coach over an opponent who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". Where did he get that idea? From officials who tell the players and coaches "don't move". By saying "don't move" you have confused them, not informed them.

I didn't T her, but had a spirited discussion over this once. GV the thrower moved slightly and bounced the ball on the floor. Home coach emphatically said that she couldn't do that. At halftime she came to me with it, in a relatively nice way. The floor had 12" tiles. This is an ideal way to describe what the thrower can do. She stands on one tile. This is the center of the spot. She can do a crossover step to the adjacent tile and then extend to her maximum length from there without violating. She "knew better" than this. I offered to bet double or nothing the game fee.

After the game the assistant was trying to look up the rule online, or so I heard.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Again, And if you tell them spot, they are not going to know if they can move forward or backward, so is that incorrect too?

I just find this as extremely splitting hairs.

If you tell them spot, that should tell them it is a spot throw-in and they cannot run the line. What they don't know after that is not our concern.

I agree this is splitting hairs.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree 100%. However, they do know what, "Don't move", means, and that statement is not factually correct based on the rules. They can move either, or both, feet anywhere within the three foot wide designated area. They can move one foot to the left side, or to the right side, of the three foot wide designated area, as long as they keep one foot in OR OVER the three foot wide designated area. And they can move as far back as they can, taking as many steps as they want to, in the five second time limit. Spin that anyway you want to, but that's moving, so why would anyone, not necessarily you, tell a player that they can't move on a designated spot throwin?

Fixed it for ya...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Some supervisors would rather that we notify the head coach when a team has one time-out left.
"When in Rome . . ."

Agree. All our supervisors, assigners, commissioners, etc., live in some kind of "Rome", so we do what they expect us to do, otherwise, we won't be working, and whether, or not, we tell coaches that they have one timeout left becomes moot, because we're not working.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You miss the overall point (once again).

JRutledge: No. You're missing the point. I am agreeing that you may have a valid opinion that, "Don't move", should not be on a list of "Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game", in fact just for the sake of argument, I may agree with you on that, that is, that, "Don't move", should not be on a list of "Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game". There, now we're in agreement in regard to our opinion of said list. Peace.

Let's agree, or, for sake of argument, pretend to agree, for sake of argument, on something else, that there are alternative things to say to player in a designated spot throwin, but, "Don't move" seems to be the quickest, and the best, statement that most efficiently communicates needed information to a player, and to a coach, without holding a rules clinic. So now were in agreement, for sake of argument, on two things. Peace.

Now let's look at some facts, not opinions, but cold facts.

Fact #1: Despite that fact that we agree that, "Don't move", seems to be the quickest, and the best, statement that most efficiently communicates needed information to a player, and to a coach, without holding a rules clinic, it does not match the rules in the rulebook. There are there scenarios where a designated spot inbounder can legally move, within the designated area, a step, either side, outside the designated area, and as far back as can be accomplished in five seconds. These are facts, not opinions.

Fact #2: At least two officials on this Forum, Camron Rust, and BillyMac, have dealt with coaches who took the directive, "Don't move", literally, and were charged with technical fouls for unsporting complaining about opponent players who "moved" on a spot throw in because he was sure they couldn't "move". These are facts, not opinions.

Now that I have validated, and accepted, for sake of argument, that your opinion that, "Don't move", does not belong on a list of "Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game", can you, JRutledge, at least, give me the courtesy of answering the following two questions?

1) Do you dispute that Fact #1 (above) is, indeed, factual?

2) Do you dispute that Fact #2 (above) is, indeed, factual?

What if the list were named: "Things That Officials Say In A Game That Are Not Factually Consistent With The Rules Of The Game Of Basketball, But They Say Them Anyway Because It's The Most Efficient Way To Communicate With Players, and Coaches"?