End of game questions

Play #1: Team A had the ball in their frontcourt with 5 seconds left. B1 slaps the ball out of A1's hand, and the ball hits out of bounds on the endline. L blows his whistle and puts his hand up to stop the clock. Just after he blows his whistle (.5 seconds by my guess), the horn sounds for the end of overtime. We convene and agree that the whistle came before the horn, but none of us had definite knowledge of how much time was remaining. Under NFHS rules, can we add time? What knowledge do we need to put time back on the clock?

Fyi, I already read the case plays and rules concerning timing mistakes and ending the period plays, and couldn't find anything.

Play #2: Team A has an endline throw-in with 1 second left in the period. A1 throws the ball to A2, who catches and immediately shoots a three-pointer. Time expires as the ball is in midair, and the horn goes off. I am C, opposite table, and I have last-shot responsibility. I signal to count the basket. The three-point try occurred in T's area tableside. As I am signalling to count the basket, T is making the made three-point signal. Couple questions. Should I signal to count the basket and then signal a made three to mirror the T? Or do I just signal to count the basket? If I signal that the three-point try did not get off in time, but is made, should the T immediately drop his made three-point signal?

Another question about this situation. Endline inbound for team A. 1 second left, A2 catches the ball, takes a dribble, then releases the three-point try. However, the timer starts the clock late. This gives A2 the time to dribble, shoot, and release the ball before the horn sounds. Can the officials do anything to disallow the shot which clearly would have been late if not for the timer starting the clock late?

[Camron Rust]

Play #1. If you look at the clock or have any sort of count, visible or mental, you can add that back. No guessing, however. Get in the habit of checking the clock on all whistles near the end of a quarter.

Play #2. Count it and signal the 3. It is always the C/T's job to mirror the make on all 3's outside of their primary. Being the last shot of a period doesn't change that.

If the 3-point shot doesn't get off in time, you should be blowing your whistle and waiving it off long before it goes in and even longer before your partner is signaling it good. If you do that, they should never get to their signal.

On the last questions...absolutely. ALWAYS have a mental count in endgame situations. If the clock had 1 second, you see it not start on time, and you get past 1 second....blow the whistle and declare the game over.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No guessing, however.

Unfortunately this is what we did.

If we know the OOB whistle was before the horn, are we required to put time back on? If we don't know how much to put back on, can we declare the period over?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Unfortunately this is what we did.

If we know the OOB whistle was before the horn, are we required to put time back on? If we don't know how much to put back on, can we declare the period over?

The answer from Camron doesn't change: You're supposed to but if you don't know how much you can't. It doesn't hurt on any play to glance up at the clock when a whistle blows if you're the non-calling official(s) but it's especially important in EOG situations.

Originally Posted by AremRed

Can the officials do anything to disallow the shot which clearly would have been late if not for the timer starting the clock late?

The corollary to glancing at the clock when the whistle blows in a last-second situation would be glancing at the clock to make sure it starts. Again, as Camron said you should have a mental clock going so you can deal with anything odd.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

On the last questions...absolutely. ALWAYS have a mental count in endgame situations. If the clock had 1 second, you see it not start on time, and you get past 1 second....blow the whistle and declare the game over.

Agreed with all of Camron's answers, but if the clock doesn't show tenths and shows 0:01, then you might need to allow up to two seconds before you blow your shistle. The 0:01 could really be anywhere from 0:01.0 to 0:01.9

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Play #1. If you look at the clock or have any sort of count, visible or mental, you can add that back. No guessing, however. Get in the habit of checking the clock on all whistles near the end of a quarter.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It doesn't hurt on any play to glance up at the clock when a whistle blows if you're the non-calling official(s) but it's especially important in EOG situations.

In this case, the whistle blew and the horn went off immediately. Taking a guess I would say .2 seconds difference. Not enough time where any of the officials had the chance to look at the clock. It was a bang-bang, whistle-horn. If it matters, the clock we were using did not display tenths of a second.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AremRed

In this case, the whistle blew and the horn went off immediately. Taking a guess I would say .2 seconds difference. Not enough time where any of the officials had the chance to look at the clock. It was a bang-bang, whistle-horn. If it matters, the clock we were using did not display tenths of a second.

Then if anyone saw it, they would have seen 1 second or 0 seconds, probably 1.

The result is the same, though, if you don't have definite knowledge of how much time to put on, time is expired.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Agreed with all of Camron's answers, but if the clock doesn't show tenths and shows 0:01, then you might need to allow up to two seconds before you blow your shistle. The 0:01 could really be anywhere from 0:01.0 to 0:01.9

Or even 0:00.1 to 0:01.9....as there are some clocks that display a time that is rounded up and some that display a time that is rounded down.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

There are some clocks that display a time that is rounded up and some that display a time that is rounded down.

Back when I started officiating, thirty-two years ago, we had a high school gymnasium that had one of these antique analog clocks. It wasn't used, but it was still on the wall. I'm willing to bet that Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. officiated with one of these clock keeping time. After all, like the analog clock, he is also an antique.

[just another ref]

When you get under one second, there's a fine line between "definite knowledge" and a guess.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

When you get under one second, there's a fine line between "definite knowledge" and a guess.

No more than any other time. "Definite" does not equal "precise" or "accurate"...never has, never will. Any official's count is merely an approximation that will vary in accuracy and precision...but it is always definite.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No more than any other time. "Definite" does not equal "precise" or "accurate"...never has, never will. Any officials count is merely an approximation that will vary in accuracy and precision...but it is always definite.

Exactly. I'd even be comfortable putting half a second up, but only if I was only consciously tracking it in my head

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

Only if I was only consciously tracking it in my head

Is that anything like me hearing voices in my head, because that happens to me all the time. What? Shut up. Not you Adam. Those damn voices won't leave me alone. Shut up.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is that anything like me hearing voices in my head, because that happens to me all the time. What? Shut up. Not you Adam. Those damn voices won't leave me alone. Shut up.

Do they sound like Celine Dion? If so, I'd definitely see a doctor. Otherwise, you're probably OK.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is that anything like me hearing voices in my head, because that happens to me all the time. What? Shut up. Not you Adam. Those damn voices won't leave me alone. Shut up.

The voices in my head only show up during games, and they simply repeat two words.

"Technical foul." Some games, it's all I can do to ignore the voices.