First Game Questions

[Mark Dexter]

Well, it's the wonderful time of the year known as intramural basketball season. I was scheduled for two games, only ended up working one (and all this after a difficult afternoon on the scorebook).

Two situations came about that arose questions in my mind.

1. A1 is on a fast break, and B1 is closely running with him down the court. A1 then throws the ball off of his own backboard (clearly not a shot attempt). B1 fouled A1 before A1 could recover the ball, so the question is moot, but if A1 catches the ball, what can he legally do? Team B claimed it was a violation as soon as either the ball was thrown against the backboard or when it was caught (depending on who was doing the complaining), while A1 claimed that it was legal only if he caught the ball in the air and then shot it (which doesn't seem right, either). Would A1 be able to catch, but then not dribble? Or would he be able to dribble if he caught the ball.

2. A1 goes up for a shot and, as he does, B1 fouls A2. I counted the basket, reported the foul on B1, and then gave A the ball out of bounds. While I handled the situation correctly, all three players (A1, A2, and B1) were right on top of each other, so it wasn't clear what I had called (although I thought I made it clear and loud when I reported to the table). B1 was initially upset - thinking I had called BI or a GT on him, then B was upset that A was getting the ball back. A was, of course, upset that they didn't get a free throw. I guess what I'm asking is "what's a good way to explain this so everyone knows what I called?"

[gordon30307]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Well, it's the wonderful time of the year known as intramural basketball season. I was scheduled for two games, only ended up working one (and all this after a difficult afternoon on the scorebook).

Two situations came about that arose questions in my mind.

1. A1 is on a fast break, and B1 is closely running with him down the court. A1 then throws the ball off of his own backboard (clearly not a shot attempt). B1 fouled A1 before A1 could recover the ball, so the question is moot, but if A1 catches the ball, what can he legally do? Team B claimed it was a violation as soon as either the ball was thrown against the backboard or when it was caught (depending on who was doing the complaining), while A1 claimed that it was legal only if he caught the ball in the air and then shot it (which doesn't seem right, either). Would A1 be able to catch, but then not dribble? Or would he be able to dribble if he caught the ball.

2. A1 goes up for a shot and, as he does, B1 fouls A2. I counted the basket, reported the foul on B1, and then gave A the ball out of bounds. While I handled the situation correctly, all three players (A1, A2, and B1) were right on top of each other, so it wasn't clear what I had called (although I thought I made it clear and loud when I reported to the table). B1 was initially upset - thinking I had called BI or a GT on him, then B was upset that A was getting the ball back. A was, of course, upset that they didn't get a free throw. I guess what I'm asking is "what's a good way to explain this so everyone knows what I called?"

1. How do you know it wasn't a try? May have just been a bad shot. At any rate no violation if caught he his own rebound and dribbled.

2. Here's how I would have handled it. Count the basket Foul on 32 Black give the ball to A for a spot throw in. My explanation Coach the foul was off ball.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by gordon30307


1. How do you know it wasn't a try? May have just been a bad shot. At any rate no violation if caught he his own rebound and dribbled.

From all of my years watching basketball. The ball was thrown, single-handedly, off the backboard - far to the left of the basket. It was in no way, shape, or form a try.

That plus the player (A1) even said that he wasn't attempting a shot.

[ditttoo]

As such (no try), it's a continuation of his dribble. Certainly able to get the ball off the backboard, but he's stuck - pass or shoot. If he again dribbles, double-dribble.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by ditttoo
As such (no try), it's a continuation of his dribble. Certainly able to get the ball off the backboard, but he's stuck - pass or shoot. If he again dribbles, double-dribble.

No, he's not stuck. Throwing the ball off his opponent's backboard is the same as a dribble.

For the 147th time -

IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL TO THROW THE BALL OFF YOUR OWN BACKBOARD AND THEN RETRIEVE IT, AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

For the 147th time -

IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL TO THROW THE BALL OFF YOUR OWN BACKBOARD AND THEN RETRIEVE IT, AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!

Tony -- I think you've lost count. It's at least the 352nd time!

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

No, he's not stuck. Throwing the ball off his opponent's backboard is the same as a dribble.

For the 147th time -

IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL TO THROW THE BALL OFF YOUR OWN BACKBOARD AND THEN RETRIEVE IT, AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!

And I knew this (not quickly enough), but was trying to find the rule reference. Is this another one that's only implicitly in there?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

No, he's not stuck. Throwing the ball off his opponent's backboard is the same as a dribble.

For the 147th time -

IT'S PERFECTLY LEGAL TO THROW THE BALL OFF YOUR OWN BACKBOARD AND THEN RETRIEVE IT, AT ANY TIME!!!!!!!

Ooooooooo! Somebody needs a nap, real bad.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
And I knew this (not quickly enough), but was trying to find the rule reference. Is this another one that's only implicitly in there?

4-4-5 4.15.4C(c)

[cmathews]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

4-4-5 4.15.4C(c)

That case reference is specifically for a try. In Mark's case he says he judges it to not be a try.

BBR, this situation has come up a time or two at our meetings and I have tried to explain why it is judged legal. I am not getting my point across LOL...can you again explain why it is legal, even if judged not to be a try?

[ChuckElias]

Mark, I think you got answers to your questions. So here's one from me. What made your game on the scorebook difficult? It was a pretty good game for you guys. What happened?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by cmathews

That case reference is specifically for a try. In Mark's case he says he judges it to not be a try.

BBR, this situation has come up a time or two at our meetings and I have tried to explain why it is judged legal. I am not getting my point across LOL...can you again explain why it is legal, even if judged not to be a try?

And I'm willing to just say "it was a try" and leave it at that. Is this by rule, though, or just by instinct/accepted practice?

[ditttoo]

Seems the distinguishing factor is whether the backboard belongs to A or B.

Case 4.4.5 A1 atytempts a pass (said it was not a try, so it must be a pass) to A2 during pressing action in A's backcourt. The ball hits B's backboard and deflects directly back to A1 who catches the ball and a) passes the ball to A2; or b) starts a dribble. RULING: The pass against B's backboard was the start of a dribble which ended when A1 caught the ball. In a) the passis legal action, in b) it is a violation for a second dribblem (9-5).

Now let's see what Rule 4.4.5 states, "A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds, except that when the ball touches the thrower's backboard it does not constitute a part of a dribble.

So if A1 slings it off his own backboard he can continue to do whatever he wants.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by cmathews
..can you again explain why it is legal, even if judged not to be a try?

Because it cannot be judged to not be a try. Everytime the ball hits the backborad of the player that threw the ball there, it was a try. Period. No I do not have a reference. But we've done this discussion before, and that was the outcome.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Because it cannot be judged to not be a try. Everytime the ball hits the backborad of the player that threw the ball there, it was a try. Period. No I do not have a reference. But we've done this discussion before, and that was the outcome.

I don't remember that being the outcome.

In no place does it say it is a try...only that the effect on the traveling rule is like that of a try. Nothing more. No reference anyone has ever made has even hinted that it would be a shooting foul for contacting a player who was bouncing the ball off the corner of the backboard.