LeBron Offensive Foul--video request

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Freddy

I know more about Noah's Ark than the arc under the basket in NBA.
Is it correct by that the offensive player causing contact commits a PC foul if the defender inside that arc maintains verticality?

We discussed this before and I am sure someone will reference the actual rule again, but when a player goes airborne the arc is not at play.

Peace

[AKOFL]

i thought it was very similar to the no call involving the same players just a few minutes before. that was the lay up lebron made. thought there were a couple inconsistent calls by ref number 25. he had a few in a row in the third. the player he had where haslem slid under after the player was airborne. then a blocking foul on haslem when the offensive player was spinning out of control and crashes into him. Does the arc bail out the out of control player in this case? just my initial thoughts. they didnt show a replay of either of those

[mutantducky]

the tech one?
VIDEO: LeBron James hit with a fourth-quarter tech - CBSSports.com
Should have been a no call. Either 1. The defensive player was not established before Lebron made his move. or 2. Same time- meaning a no call. Instead the ref goes with a charge which was the incorrect call. Unusual play and call. Good one to study. Listen, my preference is for the no call. I understand people who can argue for a charge here. I've called charges here with the Def player jumping straight up. My issue is simply that Lebron makes a move to break down the D. The interior D is a split second late. It would be wrong to call it a bad call but my argument is simply that a no call was preferable.

But overall seems people are ok with the refs this game despite some calls here and there.
I kind of wonder if Wade will retire or take a year off after the season...

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

1. The defensive player was not established before Lebron made his move.

What constitutes "made his move?"

As long as the call isn't on the defender in this play I can live with the whistle. Regarding the arc, the rule says you can't establish LGP within the arc for the sole purpose of drawing an offensive foul. You're still allowed to play defense, which is what Hibbert was doing.

[mutantducky]

I thought it was good D. But not good enough to warrant a charge.
Lebron picks up his dribble just inside the ft line. Hibbert is still moving to position at this point. Its almost bang bang and I give credit for the ref for making the call. But as I said I just feel it should have been a no-call. I have no problem with someone saying it was a charge. This is a type of play that could have gone either way.
My order
1. no call
2. Charge
3. Block

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

I thought it was good D. But not good enough to warrant a charge.
Lebron picks up his dribble just inside the ft line. Hibbert is still moving to position at this point. Its almost bang bang and I give credit for the ref for making the call. But as I said I just feel it should have been a no-call. I have no problem with someone saying it was a charge. This is a type of play that could have gone either way.
My order
1. no call
2. Charge
3. Block

Hibbert got to the position about the same time as James picked up his dribble. That was a great call. James plowed through as if he just expected the defense to get out of the way or be gifted a foul. It is great to see an offensive foul called when the defender jumps. Too many official automatically go to a block when the defender jumps. There is just way to much contact on that play for it to be a no call.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

the tech one?
VIDEO: LeBron James hit with a fourth-quarter tech - CBSSports.com
Should have been a no call. Either 1. The defensive player was not established before Lebron made his move. or 2. Same time- meaning a no call. Instead the ref goes with a charge which was the incorrect call. Unusual play and call. Good one to study. Listen, my preference is for the no call. I understand people who can argue for a charge here. I've called charges here with the Def player jumping straight up. My issue is simply that Lebron makes a move to break down the D. The interior D is a split second late. It would be wrong to call it a bad call but my argument is simply that a no call was preferable.

But overall seems people are ok with the refs this game despite some calls here and there.
I kind of wonder if Wade will retire or take a year off after the season...

Originally Posted by mutantducky

I thought it was good D. But not good enough to warrant a charge.
Lebron picks up his dribble just inside the ft line. Hibbert is still moving to position at this point. Its almost bang bang and I give credit for the ref for making the call. But as I said I just feel it should have been a no-call. I have no problem with someone saying it was a charge. This is a type of play that could have gone either way.
My order
1. no call
2. Charge
3. Block

Your deciding point about whether the defender was late or not is simply too early. Under NBA rules, for a defender to have a legal position, he must have his torso in direct path and at the spot before the offensive player starts his upward motion with the ball to shoot or pass...not simply when an offensive player has picked up their dribble. In the clip, if you pause right when it hits 21 seconds, you can see Hibbert got to the spot before LeBron starts going upward with the ball to shoot. This is the deciding point about whether a defender is late or not...not simply when he has picked up his dribble which happened well before. Also, the restricted area does not come into play here as the defender alights in a legitimate attempt to block the shot.

The only options here are a no call or charge. I personally like the charge here.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

This is a type of play that could have gone either way.

And that is what is so absurd about the way this rule is written and interpreted. Given perfect knowledge, there should be a right answer. The reason we don't always agree on a call is that there usually isn't perfect knowledge - there are differing opinions about what caused what or what happened first... but on this play, I think everyone agrees on the order of events... yet still the call could go either way. Dumb rule.

[OKREF]

Just my thought, but on that play, it looks like the defender jumps forward and not vertical. I think a block, but not a no call.