LeBron Offensive Foul--video request

[mutantducky]

the tech one?
VIDEO: LeBron James hit with a fourth-quarter tech - CBSSports.com
Should have been a no call. Either 1. The defensive player was not established before Lebron made his move. or 2. Same time- meaning a no call. Instead the ref goes with a charge which was the incorrect call. Unusual play and call. Good one to study. Listen, my preference is for the no call. I understand people who can argue for a charge here. I've called charges here with the Def player jumping straight up. My issue is simply that Lebron makes a move to break down the D. The interior D is a split second late. It would be wrong to call it a bad call but my argument is simply that a no call was preferable.

But overall seems people are ok with the refs this game despite some calls here and there.
I kind of wonder if Wade will retire or take a year off after the season...

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

1. The defensive player was not established before Lebron made his move.

What constitutes "made his move?"

As long as the call isn't on the defender in this play I can live with the whistle. Regarding the arc, the rule says you can't establish LGP within the arc for the sole purpose of drawing an offensive foul. You're still allowed to play defense, which is what Hibbert was doing.

[mutantducky]

I thought it was good D. But not good enough to warrant a charge.
Lebron picks up his dribble just inside the ft line. Hibbert is still moving to position at this point. Its almost bang bang and I give credit for the ref for making the call. But as I said I just feel it should have been a no-call. I have no problem with someone saying it was a charge. This is a type of play that could have gone either way.
My order
1. no call
2. Charge
3. Block

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

I thought it was good D. But not good enough to warrant a charge.
Lebron picks up his dribble just inside the ft line. Hibbert is still moving to position at this point. Its almost bang bang and I give credit for the ref for making the call. But as I said I just feel it should have been a no-call. I have no problem with someone saying it was a charge. This is a type of play that could have gone either way.
My order
1. no call
2. Charge
3. Block

Hibbert got to the position about the same time as James picked up his dribble. That was a great call. James plowed through as if he just expected the defense to get out of the way or be gifted a foul. It is great to see an offensive foul called when the defender jumps. Too many official automatically go to a block when the defender jumps. There is just way to much contact on that play for it to be a no call.

[APG]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

the tech one?
VIDEO: LeBron James hit with a fourth-quarter tech - CBSSports.com
Should have been a no call. Either 1. The defensive player was not established before Lebron made his move. or 2. Same time- meaning a no call. Instead the ref goes with a charge which was the incorrect call. Unusual play and call. Good one to study. Listen, my preference is for the no call. I understand people who can argue for a charge here. I've called charges here with the Def player jumping straight up. My issue is simply that Lebron makes a move to break down the D. The interior D is a split second late. It would be wrong to call it a bad call but my argument is simply that a no call was preferable.

But overall seems people are ok with the refs this game despite some calls here and there.
I kind of wonder if Wade will retire or take a year off after the season...

Originally Posted by mutantducky

I thought it was good D. But not good enough to warrant a charge.
Lebron picks up his dribble just inside the ft line. Hibbert is still moving to position at this point. Its almost bang bang and I give credit for the ref for making the call. But as I said I just feel it should have been a no-call. I have no problem with someone saying it was a charge. This is a type of play that could have gone either way.
My order
1. no call
2. Charge
3. Block

Your deciding point about whether the defender was late or not is simply too early. Under NBA rules, for a defender to have a legal position, he must have his torso in direct path and at the spot before the offensive player starts his upward motion with the ball to shoot or pass...not simply when an offensive player has picked up their dribble. In the clip, if you pause right when it hits 21 seconds, you can see Hibbert got to the spot before LeBron starts going upward with the ball to shoot. This is the deciding point about whether a defender is late or not...not simply when he has picked up his dribble which happened well before. Also, the restricted area does not come into play here as the defender alights in a legitimate attempt to block the shot.

The only options here are a no call or charge. I personally like the charge here.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

This is a type of play that could have gone either way.

And that is what is so absurd about the way this rule is written and interpreted. Given perfect knowledge, there should be a right answer. The reason we don't always agree on a call is that there usually isn't perfect knowledge - there are differing opinions about what caused what or what happened first... but on this play, I think everyone agrees on the order of events... yet still the call could go either way. Dumb rule.

[OKREF]

Just my thought, but on that play, it looks like the defender jumps forward and not vertical. I think a block, but not a no call.

[APG]

Originally Posted by maroonx

Block I. Defender just inside marked area.

Pretty sure you just posted this just to troll. This freaking idea was brought up early in the thread and easy refuted well before you posted. Why in your right mind would you then post this?

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Just my thought, but on that play, it looks like the defender jumps forward and not vertical. I think a block, but not a no call.

Looks like we are in a clear minority here but I agree.

I thought Hibbert jumped toward Lebron and also slightly brought his arms down causing contact with the shooter.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Looks like we are in a clear minority here but I agree.

I thought Hibbert jumped toward Lebron and also slightly brought his arms down causing contact with the shooter.

The contact was with the chest, not the arms. If anything the contact in the chest completely displaced Hibbert. And Hibbert fell on his behind.

Peace

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by maroonx

I think it is all a waste of time talking about this call. Miami as I predicted is blowing the garbage off the floor

Please take this to the fanboy thread. (And if the Pacers are garbage then why is this series in game 7?- and no, I don't want an answer)

This is the exact type of play that should be discussed on this forum.

[APG]

Originally Posted by maroonx

I think it is all a waste of time talking about this call. Miami as I predicted is blowing the garbage off the floor

You come to a forum dedicated to talking about officiating related topics. By happenstance, there just happens to be a section dedicated to talking about basketball officiating . And pray tell, people are actually discussing a...call made by a basketball official?

If this is a waste of time, then I'm not quite sure why you even post here.