Foul on FT sitch

[jeschmit]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The 2nd free throw is shot with no one along the lane line. What situation can you ever think of where you would run the end line after a made free throw where no one is along the lane line?

Can you provide a rule reference either way to support either ruling?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeschmit

Can you provide a rule reference either way to support either ruling?

No rule, no case play that I came up with right at this moment.

A1 is shooting 1-and-1. While A1's successful first free throw is in flight A2 fouls B2 adjacent to the division line. You need to enforce A2's foul but A1 is entitled to a 2nd free throw. So, by rule, the ball is to become dead after A1's 2nd free throw, therefore you do not put anyone along the lane line. The result of that free throw no longer has any bearing on what happens to the ball.

[jeschmit]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No rule, no case play that I came up with right at this moment.

A1 is shooting 1-and-1. While A1's successful first free throw is in flight A2 fouls B2 adjacent to the division line. You need to enforce A2's foul but A1 is entitled to a 2nd free throw. So, by rule, the ball is to become dead after A1's 2nd free throw, therefore you do not put anyone along the lane line. The result of that free throw no longer has any bearing on what happens to the ball.

I'm just playing devil's advocate because I received a response from a "big dog" in NCAAW that you're supposed to put the ball on the end line after this type of play... I asked them for a rule reference but haven't heard back yet.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeschmit

I'm just playing devil's advocate because I received a response from a "big dog" in NCAAW that you're supposed to put the ball on the end line after this type of play... I asked them for a rule reference but haven't heard back yet.

I've been fortunate to have worked a couple of games with "big dawgs" on the Men's side over the last couple years. Rules knowledge was not #1 on their resumes

[BLydic]

The Fed has it covered, somewhat ...

7.5.7 Situation F: A1 is fouled during an unsuccessful try and is awarded two free throws. While A1's successful first free throw is in flight, A2 fouls B1 along the lane. Team B is not in the bonus. The lane is cleared for A1's second attempt. A1 then violates by having a foot through the free-throw-line plane prematurely. RULING: The free-throw violation by A1 cancels the second attempt. Since Team B is not in the bonus, it results in a designated spot throw-in from the nearest spot out of bounds from where A2's foul occurred. Team B may not move along the end line as the last free throw was unsuccessful. (9-1-3e)

The question I have, unless I'm totally missing something, is why do you need a caseplay for a basic application of the rules? Live ball, common foul, team not in bonus, ball goes to offended team for a throw-in at a spot nearest the foul.

[Raymond]

Also (from FED):

7.5.7 SITUATION C:

Team B has scored a field goal and A1 has the ball along the end line for a throw-in. Team A is not in the bonus. Prior to the ball being thrown inbounds by A1: (a) B1 fouls A2 inbounds near A1; (b) B1 fouls A2 at the *division line; (c) B1 fouls A2 beyond the division line; or (d) A2 requests a time-out.

RULING: In (a) and (d), Team A may throw-in from anywhere out of bounds along the end line following the foul reporting and the time-out. In (b) and (c), the ball will be given to Team A for a throw-in from the spot out of bounds nearest to where the foul occurred.

__________________________________________________ _______________

So from the OP I'm putting the ball in play nearest the spot of the foul after A1's second free throw. In a case where the foul was along the lane line (meaning end line throw-in) then if A1's 2nd free throw is successful then I would allow Team B to run the end line.

I have no clear cut rules backing. Just a mish-mash of other rulings.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Rules knowledge was not #1 on their resumes

What is #1 on their resumes?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by AremRed

What is #1 on their resumes?

Not getting involved in #2

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Not getting involved in #2

Nice!!

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by jeschmit

I'm just playing devil's advocate because I received a response from a "big dog" in NCAAW that you're supposed to put the ball on the end line after this type of play... I asked them for a rule reference but haven't heard back yet.

It would appear your "big dog" friend doesn't understand how to handle false double fouls.

[jeschmit]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It would appear your "big dog" friend doesn't understand how to handle false double fouls.

I'm not saying you are wrong (I actually am on your side as well). I just want to make sure we cover all angles per the rulebook.

Let's be honest with this play...

If you were to EVER have a play like this one... you are more than likely going F1, F2 or Technical (depending on the status of the ball).

IF I ever see this play that's how I'm handling this play from here on out!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jeschmit

I'm not saying you are wrong (I actually am on your side as well). I just want to make sure we cover all angles per the rulebook.

Let's be honest with this play...

If you were to EVER have a play like this one... you are more than likely going F1, F2 or Technical (depending on the status of the ball).

IF I ever see this play that's how I'm handling this play from here on out!

1. He's right about false doubles, that's the angle you should take, as the book clearly states they're enforced in the order they occur.

2. 9 times out of 10, if you see this play, an intentional foul (F1) will be an option. But don't consider it the only way to go, as there are lots of off ball fouls that occur that are common fouls.

3. You'll never see anything like this in a high school game or above, but I wouldn't be too shocked to see it in a summer game. Knowing the rules (which are really quite clear on this) is key to enforcing these odd situations.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by jeschmit

I'm not saying you are wrong (I actually am on your side as well). I just want to make sure we cover all angles per the rulebook.

Let's be honest with this play...

If you were to EVER have a play like this one... you are more than likely going F1, F2 or Technical (depending on the status of the ball).

IF I ever see this play that's how I'm handling this play from here on out!

Calling the foul an F1 isn't going to get you out of having to know where to inbound the ball following all of the FTs. It just adds 2FTs at the other basket to the situation.

The only rule reference which you need is the one that tells you to administer a throw-in from the OOB spot nearest to the location of the foul when the bonus is not in effect. It's really that simple.