[Video Request] Backcourt off of halfcourt pass/shot?

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Adam

Actually, this would be a violation because of 9-9-2, causing "the ball to go from backcourt to the frontcourt and return to the backcourt without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt."

Had an offensive player tipped it in the FC on its way back, it would have been a violation under the old rules, and thus by intent of the committee; it would not, however, be a violation under a literal reading of 9-9-1.

I have a tipped ball in the front court by the defender. The pass is being thrown to the player in the corner and gets deflected by the defender.

So I have team control maintained throughout, no player control in the front court by the offense. And I have the defender causing the ball to go into the back court.

So I have a legal play, score the basket.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Toren

I have a tipped ball in the front court by the defender. The pass is being thrown to the player in the corner and gets deflected by the defender.

So I have team control maintained throughout, no player control in the front court by the offense. And I have the defender causing the ball to go into the back court.

So I have a legal play, score the basket.

I don't see any tip by a defender in the FC. There may have been a tip at the point of the pass, though, and that would make the play legal.

Whether there is player control in the FC, however, is not relevant.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Toren

I have a tipped ball in the front court by the defender. The pass is being thrown to the player in the corner and gets deflected by the defender.

So I have team control maintained throughout, no player control in the front court by the offense. And I have the defender causing the ball to go into the back court.

So I have a legal play, score the basket.

TC is required. Not TC contol in the front court. Your reasoning for it not being a BC violation is not valid.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

TC is required. Not TC contol in the front court. Your reasoning for it not being a BC violation is not valid.

My reasoning is valid. I added a detail that didn't need to be included for the back court violation discussion, but when I referee I like to know all the details of the play.

In a short conference I would have said, the defender deflected the ball into the back court.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not TC contol in the front court.

How would you have a back court violation without TC in the front court?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Toren

How would you have a back court violation without TC in the front court?

Your reasoning is still invalid:

"So I have team control maintained throughout, no player control in the front court by the offense..." is what you wrote.

The reason, based on your new details, would be that the offense was not the last to touch when the ball had front court status. Player control in the front court is completely irrelevant.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Toren

How would you have a back court violation without TC in the front court?

You can't.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Your reasoning is still invalid:

"So I have team control maintained throughout, no player control in the front court by the offense..." is what you wrote.

The reason, based on your new details, would be that the offense was not the last to touch when the ball had front court status. Player control in the front court is completely irrelevant.

Correct, that's what I wrote. Those are the details of what I saw. That's not the reasoning for why I don't have a back court.

The reason I don't have a backcourt is the defender gave the ball back court status.

I apologize for not being clear on that.

[Afrosheen]

Just to be clear, if we're talking about the original video in this thread, and if the defender did not touch it, then the ball gains frontcourt status as it hits the backboard:

4-4-5: A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds;

4-13-1: A team’s frontcourt consists of that part of the court between its end line and the nearer edge of the division line, including its basket and the inbounds part of the backboard.

So with 9-9-2 (below) it should be judged that the play was a backcourt violation, unless of course the throw is considered to be a shot which nullifies the first requirement in 9-9-2:

ART. 2 . . . While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt.

[Toren]

Originally Posted by Afrosheen

Just to be clear, if we're talking about the original video in this thread, and if the defender did not touch it, then the ball gains frontcourt status as it hits the backboard:

4-4-5: A ball which touches the front faces or edges of the backboard is treated the same as touching the floor inbounds;

4-13-1: A team’s frontcourt consists of that part of the court between its end line and the nearer edge of the division line, including its basket and the inbounds part of the backboard.

So with 9-9-2 (below) it should be judged that the play was a backcourt violation, unless of course the throw is considered to be a shot which nullifies the first requirement in 9-9-2:

ART. 2 . . . While in player and team control in its backcourt, a player shall not cause the ball to go from backcourt to frontcourt and return to backcourt, without the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, such that he/she or a teammate is the first to touch it in the backcourt.

Correct