Basketball rule questions

[potato]

I saw a video of Michael Jordan getting called for travelling while dribbling.

He wasn't palming, just that he was taking 4-5 quick-mini steps while the ball was on his hand. He wasn't palming or holding the ball just his steps were so quick he did 4-5 steps.

I always though you can only take maximum of 2 steps while the ball is touching your hand while you are dribbling? But with this statement it becomes invalid.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules

Palming or carrying is when the ball comes to rest in the player's hand, and the player either travels with the ball, or dribbles a second time. There is no restriction as to how high a player may bounce the ball, provided the ball does not come to rest in a player’s hand. Steps taken during a dribble are not traveling, including several that are sometimes taken when a high dribble takes place. It is not possible for a player to travel during a dribble.

[potato]

The 2 narratives on stealing/reaching seems unfair for the offense. An accidental hit can sometimes be sufficient to cause the ball handler to loose the ball/affect his shots. I'm guessing if it's a minor contact and the defender doesn't get any advantage out of it it's ok. But if it's enough to affect the ball handler it should be a foul.

Then again i know there's the legendary "The Hand(s) in contact of the ball is part of the ball & it's legal to hit the ball rule hence it's legal to hit the hand in contact with the ball."

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It is legal use of hands to accidentally hit the hand of the opponent when it is in contact with the ball. This includes holding, dribbling, passing, or even during a shot attempt. Striking a ball handler or a shooter on that player's hand that is incidental to an attempt to play the ball is not a foul.

Reaching in is not a foul. There must be illegal contact to have a foul. The mere act of reaching in, by itself, is nothing. If illegal contact does occur, it’s probably a holding foul, an illegal use of hands foul, or a hand check foul. When a player, in order to stop the clock, does not make a legitimate play for the ball, holds, pushes or grabs away from the ball, or uses undue roughness, the foul is an intentional foul.

[just another ref]

Gonna be really hard to sort through all this now.

Originally Posted by potato

I always though you can only take maximum of 2 steps while the ball is touching your hand while you are dribbling? But with this statement it becomes invalid.

As long as you continue dribbling, provided that you do not carry the ball, you can take as many steps as you want.

Pro tip: stop asking questions involving "number of steps". This whole discussion should center around which foot is the pivot, and what the players does with that pivot.

Quoted from first page -- I am answering using mostly NFHS rules

Defending:
1.If a person does a fadeaway jumpshot and the defender had to lean forward to block, if the lower body made contact (usually legs) with the shooter is it a shooting foul as usually the shooter's lower body extend forward?

This is the subject of a recent thread involving Kobe Bryant and his last second fadeaway against the Hawks. A fadeaway shot is taken for a reason -- so the shooter can create space. If the defender does not allow him to land, or takes out his legs, it is a foul. However, depending on the points of emphasis where you are, a shooter kicking out a leg trying to draw contact should not be called.

2.If a person shoots and the defender jumps for the block and the shooter hand hits the defender's hand is it consider a shooting foul?

If the defensive player is being vertical with his arms I am unlikely to call a foul. If the defender tries to block the ball but gets all arm, that is a foul. In this situation, don't punish the defender for playing good, legal defense.


3.If a person goes for a shot and uses his non-shooting arm to block the defender and contact made, is there a foul? Would it be a foul if the defender hit the shooter's blocking hand really hard?

If the defender is hit in the head or disadvantaged from legally challenging the shot, it should be an offensive foul. In your second question, who initiated contact? If the defender is vertical with his arms, and the offensive player pushes to create space, offensive foul. If the defender initiates non-legal or incidental contact, defensive foul.

4.How restricted zone works as i believe no charging can be called within the zone? So the offense can do whatever they want in the zone? Must the offense jump towards the basket within the zone for no-charging to apply or they can jump from 3-point line and not worry about any charging if contact made within the zone?

As long as a defender establishes Legal Guarding Position outside the Restricted Area, and providing they maintain that Legal Guarding Position, they can draw a charge anywhere on the court, including inside the restricted area. I am not sure how a player can jump from the 3-point line and commit a charge in the RA. Is the player still in the air??

5.If a defender has gained position before the offense and the offense goes for the basket & the defender stays on the ground with arms up, if body contact is made is it a defensive foul? What if the defender jumps up or moved his hands and contact made.

A defensive player in Legal Guarding Position can draw a charge with his feet on the ground, or while in the air. The location of the feet does not matter. A defender who has LGP may jump straight up, have the offensive player initiate contact, and draw a charge whilst in the air. This is rarely called, but I think it is correct.

6.If the offense makes a cut to the basket & the defender follows, usually the offense shoulder would make contact with the defender's chest and usually ends with a bump, is it a blocking foul? Or it's a blocking foul only when the defender suddenly dash infront of the offense when he's about to shoot?

When using our judgement to determine fouls, the easiest question to ask is "was the offensive player put at an illegal disadvantage?" If yes, then perhaps there is a foul on the defender. Any bump is not necessarily a foul, you should read the NFHS section on "Incidental Contact" to better understand what contact is and is not a foul.

7.If the defender jumps late for a jump shot, and body contact made after the ball left the shooter's hand, is it considered a shooting foul or just play on. What if the contact is big for example the defender collides with the shooter after the shooter just landed?

It depends on the amount of body contact. If the defender jumps and lands on the guy, or crashes into him hard, it might be a foul. If the defender is trying to avoid the contact, and the shooter flops, no call. According to NFHS rules, when the shooter lands he is not longer a shooter. Thus, the basket would count if it went in, and the appropriate foul (push, block, etc) would be called and administered.

8.After a shooting foul, if the offense is trying to get a foul in, and gets fouled in the process how would it be interpreted? I know the defender can still go for the block but if there's another foul?

You need to be more specific before I can answer this question. If the shooter is fouled (and the foul is called), but then fouls the defender, it is a dead ball technical foul. It may or may not be intentional or flagrant. If you mean during a shooting foul another foul is called (perhaps a hold on players jostling for rebound position) then the fouls all count. The penalties are then administered in order of occurrence.

9.If the defender goes for a pump fake, jumped (vertical of his position not towards the shooter), the shooter takes this chance and jumps forward into or under him to get a contact is it consider a shooting foul, say if the shooter didn't jump towards the already air born defender there won't be contact?

This is a typical NBA play done to draw a foul. If the defender jumps straight up and the offensive player jumps forward into the defender trying to draw contact, I have no foul. If the offensive player undercuts the vertical defender, I might have an offensive foul. If any defender has Legal Guarding Position and jumps vertically with vertical arms, I consider that excellent defense and do not often call a foul in that situation.

10.How much contact is allowed before you get called for reach in foul?

Going back to what I said earlier "was the player put at a disadvantage?" If the defender swats the ball away with his fingers but had to hits the offensive players arm with his forearm to get to the ball, I have a foul.

11.If a person drives to the basket and jumps, the defender jumps to block, no contacts were made initially but the offense decide to do a switch hand and body contact was made, for example offense arm which he switched to was seriously blocked by the defender's arm/body which obstructed the shot, does it count as a shooting foul?

You have to "referee the defense". If the defense is legal, and the offensive player initiates contact, I am unlikely to penalize the defender, no matter which arm the offensive player shoots the ball with.

12.Is it possible to call shooting foul or other foul should significant body contact made only AFTER a shot has been released?

Yes, it is possible. If there is significant contact made, there might be a foul.

13.Is it possible to call Goal Tending on a Dunk?

Yes it is. If the offensive player has the ball in his hand, and it is blocked, it is a good block. Once the player releases the ball during the dunk attempt, it is like any other try and can be goaltended. However, most of the time the offensive player keeps his hand on the ball all the way to the rim, and thus can be blocked up until the release.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I don't think you can ever take 2 steps without dribbling, can you?

Sure you can. You can take as many as you want as long as they are all with the same foot. Pivot on the left while step, step, step with the right is perfectly legal.

This is also an excellent reason why it is silly to talk about any specific number of steps when teaching or discussing traveling.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

Quoted from first page
13.Is it possible to call Goal Tending on a Dunk?

I am least sure about this answer. I say no, because although the ball may be headed down, it is still in the offensive players hands. If the defender blocks the dunk at the rim, I think he made a great play.

You are unsure about your answer because you need to spend more time reading the rules and case books.
Go look up the definition of dunking in the NFHS books. Tell me what it says about the ring or imaginary cylinder above the ring.

Quoted from the first page -- I am answering using mostly NFHS rules

Offense:
1.How much bumping is allowed by the offense? Whether it's using shoulder or using their lower back (hip) to bump. Especially during post up & under the rim shots.

If a defender has Legal Guarding Position and the offensive player pushes him or displaces him from his spot on the floor, I have an offensive foul. If a post player and his defender are wrestling for position down low, I am closely watching for a holding or pushing foul, but usually let them play a little. Again, it depends on whether a player was put at an illegal disadvantage.

2.During post up or box out, how much arm is allowed to prevent the defender from getting close? Are you only allowed to use the arm to "block" or can you outright use your body weight on the arm and "push"?

If the offensive player is holding the defender away from him by using his arm, it is an offensive foul. If the defender is using his forearm in the offensive players back to push him or hold him where he is, it is a foul on the defender. Again, all depends on who is putting who at an illegal disadvantage.

3.What is "Up Down" rule, can you run the 2 steps in the mean time do fakes or you have to either pass or shoot once your arms in shooting form?

I am not familiar with the "Up down" rule? Perhaps you mean travelling, which is picking up your pivot foot and putting it down again before releasing a pass or shot. If a player has ended his dribble, he must either pass or shoot, to dribble again is a "double-dribble" violation.

4.How much space must a screener give to make the screen legal? And must you hold both hands at your crouch when screening? What if you just position your arms normally like when you standstill, can you hold your hands to the chest if you see the defender charging into you to protect your body?

A screener must give the defender ample time and distance to avoid the screen. While moving, the defender must be able to get out of the way, which depending on the speed of the defender, may be one or two steps. While the defender is stationary, I think the screen does not have to be set in consideration of time/distance. You may have to ask others or consult a rulebook for the requirements of a legal screen, but I think the arms should be within the body area, not sticking out to clip the screenee.

5a.If an offensive player runs in between a defender and ball handler is it consider a screen? Say if the player just "passing by". And would it be an illegal screen?

This would be an illegal screen if the defender was prevented from legal movement. There is a type of screen called the "brush screen" which dangerously skirts the line between legal and illegal. Again, was the defender put at an illegal disadvantage by this offensive player running through?

5b.If a offensive player runs infront a shooter & defender to block the defender's path how quickly must he gain position before being called illegal screen should contact made?

Again, judge by the time/distance given as well as the illegal advantage/disadvantage gained.

6.How does the 3second in the paint timer works? When does it reset? For example you post up in the paint, does it reset once you received the ball, or when you start the dribble, or when you catch the ball after dribble, does the counter still counts if you start doing pump fakes/pivot? When does the 3 second counter stop/reset while you are still in the paint? What if you end up passing the ball does the counter for that player gets reset?

I learned this the hard way, so I am glad you are asking.3 seconds exists so that an offensive player cannot camp out in the paint. If a player posts up, has been in the lane for 2 seconds, and receives the ball, we allow him a little extra time to make a move to shoot. If the post player, for example, received the pass at 2 seconds, kicks it out to re-post, and does not leave the paint, you should call 3 seconds. Dribbling or passing does not factor into the 3 seconds equation. However, 3 seconds resets on any shot attempt. If you work youth ball, you will hear many parents yelling for 3 seconds when shots and putback attempts are being missed with about 8 players in the lane. Ignore them. 3 seconds also resets on a change of possession. Also, 3 seconds only applies when the ball has froncourt status with team control.

7.5 seconds back to basket, how close do you need to be for the counter to start? under what condition does the counter reset (i.e fake half spin)? does it count when you are not dribbling but back to basket?

I believe this is only an NBA rule. Also known as the "Mark Jackson Rule". I don't know about this rule other than that.

10.Is it an offense if you throw a ball at the opponent with full force?

Perhaps it is just a turnover. If done maliciously, consider an intentional, flagrant, or flagrant technical foul. Remember, we are expected to know the rules, but we are paid for our judgement. I once had a player throw the ball in anger at his own teammate. The ball ricocheted off the teammate and out of bounds. Turnover. That player was promptly subbed.

Rebounding:
1.How much contact must be made before over the back foul applies? How to determine if a player is indeed infront?

There is no such thing as an "over-the-back foul". That is simply a layman's term. We officials call it a "pushing foul". Was the player in front put at a disadvantage? Did the player behind push the front player so he could grab the rebound and attempt a putback. If yes, call the push.

2.How much arm/elbow can you use while boxing out for rebound? And how much lower back (hip) bump can you use?

I think a proper box-out is mostly hip/butt. If a player backs out his man with his butt, I am unlikely to call a foul. Watch the arms though, there might be a hold on the player in front trying to prevent his man from running around him.

3.Are body contacts allowed during jumping for rebounding? Can you slap the opponents hand/arm while on air?

Again, read the NFHS (depending on what rule set you use) section on "Incidental Contact". Again, consider the advantage/disadvantage gained on the play. If the ball is loose, and two players are going vertically to secure the rebound, I am probably not calling a foul if they high-five.

4.Does shooting foul apply for immediate airborne rebound putbacks (grabs rebound and shoots before landing)?

If a player if fouled while shooting (gathered to some, act of shooting to others) it is a shooting foul. It is the same whether on a jump-shot or a putback attempt.

5.How much body contact is allowed for a chase for loose balls? Can i just charge towards the ball and knock the other chaser down if both are close?

This thread has a good discussion of whether or not to call a foul during a loose ball. In the video the officials did not call any fouls before the held ball occurred, but it could be argued that a foul was committed by one playing jumping on/falling over the other player.

That is all i can think of on top of my mind right now.

Also can someone explain the positions for throwing in out of bounds ball?

Check your officials manual.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are unsure about your answer because you need to spend more time reading the rules and case books.
Go look up the definition of dunking in the NFHS books. Tell me what it says about the ring or imaginary cylinder above the ring.

According to my understanding, it is goaltending whenever the ball is blocked in its downward flight, above the rim, and has a chance to go in.

However, after reading the rules a few times, I am still confused. Is a dunk attempt considered a try? Can you explain it to me?

Also, I didn't see any wording about an "imaginary cylinder", can you point out where it says that?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

According to my understanding, it is goaltending whenever the ball is blocked in its downward flight, above the rim, and has a chance to go in.

However, after reading the rules a few times, I am still confused. Is a dunk attempt considered a try? Can you explain it to me?

Also, I didn't see any wording about an "imaginary cylinder", can you point out where it says that?

You are starting to get the point. Can you find where in the definition of dunking the ring is mentioned?

Picture this play: A1 jumps and has the ball in his right hand. He raises the ball to a height of 12 feet. He is holding it two feet in front of the basket and now throws it downward with great force. The ball is headed towards the basket and will likely go in when a nearby defender jumps and bats the ball away. What call do you make?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are starting to get the point. Can you find where in the definition of dunking the ring is mentioned?

Picture this play: A1 jumps and has the ball in his right hand. He raises the ball to a height of 12 feet. He is holding it two feet in front of the basket and now throws it downward with great force. The ball is headed towards the basket and will likely go in when a nearby defender jumps and bats the ball away. What call do you make?

I have a feeling it's wrong, but I would call that a good block. Question: is the ball still in the players hand or is this some JaVale McGee throw-in dunk from 6 feet away? I would call it a block if in the defenders hand, a goaltend if contacted after the release.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

I have a feeling it's wrong, but I would call that a good block. Question: is the ball still in the players hand or is this some JaVale McGee throw-in dunk from 6 feet away? I would call it a block if in the defenders hand, a goaltend if contacted after the release.

The defender touches the ball after it is released by the opposing player.
Care to reconsider your initial answer?
Javale McGee and Blake Griffin and good players to use for examples of such.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The defender touches the ball after it is released by the opposing player.
Care to amend your answer in the post above?
Javale McGee and Blake Griffin and good players to use for examples of such.

Naw, it shows my thought process. Defender touches ball after release? Goaltend. Already said that. What about before the release? And is a dunk a try? Answer please.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by seanwestref

Naw, it shows my thought process. Defender touches ball after release? Goaltend. Already said that. What about before the release? And is a dunk a try? Answer please.

I edited my post to clarify what I was asking you.
Look at the definition of a try. Is there anything which would eliminate a dunk?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I edited my post to clarify what I was asking you.
Look at the definition of a try. Is there anything which would eliminate a dunk?

I said I was confused. I asked for you to explain it. I asked again. Are you going to answer my question or continue to ask questions I already said I don't know?