Gonzaga / Southern video (Added)

[cmb]

WOW! This exact same play just happened again in the Wichita St./Gonzaga game somewhere in the 6:xx mark of the game. John Higgins (L) comes up with two hands (fists) as Mike Stuart (C) is sending it the other way. It's an epidemic!

[icallfouls]

Originally Posted by cmb

WOW! This exact same play just happened again in the Wichita St./Gonzaga game somewhere in the 6:xx mark of the game. John Higgins (L) comes up with two hands (fists) as Mike Stuart (C) is sending it the other way. It's an epidemic!

Good communication prevented another Blarge. Apparently Stuart and Higgins don't consider 2 hands up a preliminary for a Block, otherwise they would have gone with the double foul. I think we are in good company.

[junruh07]

I am also pretty sure that Mike Stuart is on the Butler-Marquette game.

[cmb]

Originally Posted by junruh07

I am also pretty sure that Mike Stuart is on the Butler-Marquette game.

Yep. My bad. It was John Gaffney.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by icallfouls

Good communication prevented another Blarge. Apparently Stuart and Higgins don't consider 2 hands up a preliminary for a Block, otherwise they would have gone with the double foul. I think we are in good company.

As I said before, only on this board is this even a discussion.

Peace

[zm1283]

I don't know how you could interpret the Lead's actions as anything else than a block signal in progress that the Trail stops. Everyone arguing differently simply wants to defend the officials at all costs.

This was a barge.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I don't know how you could interpret the Lead's actions as anything else than a block signal in progress that the Trail stops. Everyone arguing differently simply wants to defend the officials at all costs.

This was a barge.

Like I have said before, show us where a rule or interpretation suggests that any movement is considered a "signal" and then you can make that ruling with great confidence. Otherwise you are giving your personal opinion that no one off this site would be likely having. Absolutely never heard this argument a day in my career before and we have talked about these situations many times before. Also many of us that you claim are defending the official at all costs often have criticized other officials for other things, so that holds little to no water either.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

What it boils down to is that the NCAA has declared that once a conflicting call has been made known by showing what you have, you can''t cancel one of them. They didn't say you have to completely show it, just that it be shown. If you know what he had, it was shown.

There was a great example of it being done right at around the 15min mark of Butler/Marq. The C merely raised his fist and nothing more while the L took the call. The C may or may not have had something different but he didn't show any indication of what he had and it was over. That is how it should be done. Show "nothing".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What it boils down to is that the NCAA has declared that once a conflicting call has been made known by showing what you have, you can''t cancel one of them. They didn't say you have to completely show it, just that it be shown. If you know what he had, it was shown.

There was a great example of it being done right at around the 15min mark of Butler/Marq. The C merely raised his fist and nothing more while the L took the call. The C may or may not have had something different but he didn't show any indication of what he had and it was over. That is how it should be done. Show "nothing".

Well your claim is that these are conflicting signals. So in order for that the interpretation that everyone at that level can apply, don't you have to have something that suggests this is the case? All the video the NCAA uses (and they use a lot of it) and they have never addressed your claim that this is a "blarge" by rule or that you have to consider this action by the lead a "signal." I would have no problem agreeing with that opinion if there was some literature to back that up. Otherwise you will have this kind of action. Right now only NCAAW has made it where you can pick one or the other after calls have been signaled. The NCAA is staying with the same philosophy that the NF has laid out. And even the NF has not said that any gesture or movement that may look like a particular signal is a sign of a "blarge." You keep talking about rules but have no rule to support this very specific situation. Yes it is obvious to me that the Lead was going to call a block, but he did not complete the signal. And as I have stated before I have seen officials run off the baseline to signal a PC foul or a block depending o their personal style (Joey Crawford) and would that be evidence of either signal if they had not actually given a signal that looks somewhat like it is described in the book? I think that is a stretch and that is really all my position has been here.

Peace

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Like I have said before, show us where a rule or interpretation suggests that any movement is considered a "signal" and then you can make that ruling with great confidence. Otherwise you are giving your personal opinion that no one off this site would be likely having. Absolutely never heard this argument a day in my career before and we have talked about these situations many times before. Also many of us that you claim are defending the official at all costs often have criticized other officials for other things, so that holds little to no water either.

Peace

Then what exactly was the Trail stopping the Lead from doing then?

He blew the whistle and put his hands in the air to signal a block....that movement is considered a signal in every basketball game I've ever watched. He sure isn't waving down the beer guy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Then what exactly was the Trail stopping the Lead from doing then?

He blew the whistle and put his hands in the air to signal a block....that movement is considered a signal in every basketball game I've ever watched. He sure isn't waving down the beer guy.

Again, show me the rule that says that any movement is considered a signal that would result in a blarge? And unless you have not worked with many people, I see officials often in games I have worked make it clear they are taking the call without even having to put up their hands. Usually that is why you put your arm up first and then make eye contact and then when you realize that no one else has made a call or someone else has made a call, you then signal of what you are going with. Again, just show us the interpretation and I will agree with you if it says what you suggest.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by zm1283

Then what exactly was the Trail stopping the Lead from doing then?

He blew the whistle and put his hands in the air to signal a block....that movement is considered a signal in every basketball game I've ever watched. He sure isn't waving down the beer guy.

When you work a game with Rick Schnur, James Barker, and/or Teddy Valentine you may have to adjust your thinking.

Like I said already, those 3 officials decided Schnur's actions did not constitute a preliminary signal. And not a single, solidary person has posted a single citation that states their judgment was wrong by rule.

[Judtech]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Like I have said before, show us where a rule or interpretation suggests that any movement is considered a "signal" and then you can make that ruling with great confidence. Otherwise you are giving your personal opinion that no one off this site would be likely having. Absolutely never heard this argument a day in my career before and we have talked about these situations many times before. Also many of us that you claim are defending the official at all costs often have criticized other officials for other things, so that holds little to no water either.

Peace

I disagree with this statement. I'm sure the coaches had something to say and discussed it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Judtech

I disagree with this statement. I'm sure the coaches had something to say and discussed it.

First of all it is hyperbole. Secondly I have never been to any association, staff or personal discussion with any official that has ever said that a blarge is when an official "looks like" they are going to signal something. And considering that it was never discussed by the anyone after the game for that purpose, I am going to guess it probably is not something many non-officials are even thinking about. Just an educated guess of course.

Peace