"Continuous" issues...

[scrounge]

I can at least see an argument on #3 - though I still think it's shooting - but the rest seem pretty clear cut. Especially #5 - how that wasn't called a shooting foul, I have no idea.

[Pantherdreams]

1,2,3 send them to the line.

4,5 if the contact is during the shooting motion then send them. There is arms and pushing in both prior to any motion and on a patient whistle they may be going back and getting that.

Based on when the whistles occured in each though I'm sending them to the line.

[JetMetFan]

So are we - as H.S. officials - worried we'll take grief for making "NBA calls?"

What bothered me even more about these plays is they're in the playoffs. I would assume - based on my own experiences - playoff officials have some level of college experience so they should have worked out the kinks on these calls.

I agree with the idea of forcefully suggesting to the calling officials that A1 was in the act ("Joe, you have her/him shooting?!"). Maybe it jolts them a little to realize what they should do. In #3 it would've been tough because the calling official (the L) was waving it off so emphatically. At any rate, all five had me shouting "What?!" when I saw them the first time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

So are we - as H.S. officials - worried we'll take grief for making "NBA calls?"

What bothered me even more about these plays is they're in the playoffs. I would assume - based on my own experiences - playoff officials have some level of college experience so they should have worked out the kinks on these calls.

The college thing would not be a factor here and honestly I see HS only guys love to wave off shots. And in my experience a lot of college guys around this part of the country (what they tell me) is they do not work a lot of HS ball at all.

Peace

[OKREF]

1,2,4, and 5 for certain. On 3, looks like the shooting motion started after the foul.

[JRutledge]

I have to tell this funny story.

I was watching a couple of my playoff games this week online. One of the teams that we had twice was had their local radio commentators doing the broadcast along with the video. First of all they got my name wrong (kind of hard to do when I am the only Black person working in the entire regional and one guy was Hispanic and had an Hispanic sounding name) all week. And then when I had two fouls that resulted in shots being counted, they misrepresented what I had signaled. Now my signal might not be purely out fo the book from a look standpoint, but it clearly could not be anything else but counting the basket as my hand comes downward from a "foul signal" mechanic. They said about 3 times that, "He signalled to the floor." I just had to laugh and wonder how stupid they sounded when clearly I would go to the table and count the basket before reporting the number of the player that fouled. I guess the only conclusion other than pure ignorance on their part (and that was there all week) was that officials must be signalling to the floor often when they are not calling a shooting foul. I even had a foul in one of the games where I waved off a shot by waving my arms and they still did not "get it."

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have to tell this funny story.

I was watching a couple of my playoff games this week online. One of the teams that we had twice was had their local radio commentators doing the broadcast along with the video. First of all they got my name wrong (kind of hard to do when I am the only Black person working in the entire regional and one guy was Hispanic and had an Hispanic sounding name) all week. And then when I had two fouls that resulted in shots being counted, they misrepresented what I had signaled. Now my signal might not be purely out fo the book from a look standpoint, but it clearly could not be anything else but counting the basket as my hand comes downward from a "foul signal" mechanic. They said about 3 times that, "He signalled to the floor." I just had to laugh and wonder how stupid they sounded when clearly I would go to the table and count the basket before reporting the number of the player that fouled. I guess the only conclusion other than pure ignorance on their part (and that was there all week) was that officials must be signalling to the floor often when they are not calling a shooting foul. I even had a foul in one of the games where I waved off a shot by waving my arms and they still did not "get it."

JRut, I do some b'casting myself (hockey and other sports if I can get them). I've always loved the "wait, it looks like they've changed the foul to..." comment. I always start screaming at the screen, "Um, no, they didn't change the foul! You guys just identified the wrong guy!"

[Adam]

Wow, I just watched them. While 3 is close, I'm still giving her that shot. And the first three are all at the Iowa State Tournament (Final 8 teams of each class) in Des Moines.

Maybe once a season will I hear a coach ask "wasn't he/she shooting?"

More often, I hear, "Wasn't it on the floor?"

[kk13]

Some people are questioning #3. It looks to me like she had "collected" was fouled and then completed the try. AND ONE in my book!

[Scuba_ref]

Originally Posted by OKREF

1,2,4, and 5 for certain. On 3, looks like the shooting motion started after the foul.

The gather was well before the foul on #3. Not even a question in my mind! Send her to the line. The shooting motion starts when the ball is gathered and the dribble has ended.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by kk13

Some people are questioning #3. It looks to me like she had "collected" was fouled and then completed the try. AND ONE in my book!

Originally Posted by Scuba_ref

The gather was well before the foul on #3. Not even a question in my mind! Send her to the line. The shooting motion starts when the ball is gathered and the dribble has ended.

First, "gather"/"collect", while we often use it as an indicator could just as well precede a pass. In #3, it wasn't clear to me that she had yet made up her mind on what she was going to do with the ball. She was going in a direction not exactly to the hoop, got fouled, then turned to the basket....almost as if I was an afterthought. I can't say she wasn't shooting and wouldn't criticize anyone who puts her on the line, but it is also not unreasonable to say she wasn't shooting on that one.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

in my experience a lot of college guys around this part of the country (what they tell me) is they do not work a lot of HS ball at all.

Fair enough. Again, I was giong on my experiences in my neck of the woods. Once we hit the QF in the NYC playoffs we start using 3-person crews. I can't think of the last time I saw an official on one of those games who didn't work a decent amount (15-20 games/season) of college ball as well.

On a different note: for those who think play #3 could be a non-shooting foul I'm curious as to why. Regarding OKREF's comment, her shooting motion may have started after she was hit but the habitual motion before the shot appears to have begun prior to the hit.