"Continuous" issues...

[JRutledge]

I have to tell this funny story.

I was watching a couple of my playoff games this week online. One of the teams that we had twice was had their local radio commentators doing the broadcast along with the video. First of all they got my name wrong (kind of hard to do when I am the only Black person working in the entire regional and one guy was Hispanic and had an Hispanic sounding name) all week. And then when I had two fouls that resulted in shots being counted, they misrepresented what I had signaled. Now my signal might not be purely out fo the book from a look standpoint, but it clearly could not be anything else but counting the basket as my hand comes downward from a "foul signal" mechanic. They said about 3 times that, "He signalled to the floor." I just had to laugh and wonder how stupid they sounded when clearly I would go to the table and count the basket before reporting the number of the player that fouled. I guess the only conclusion other than pure ignorance on their part (and that was there all week) was that officials must be signalling to the floor often when they are not calling a shooting foul. I even had a foul in one of the games where I waved off a shot by waving my arms and they still did not "get it."

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

in my experience a lot of college guys around this part of the country (what they tell me) is they do not work a lot of HS ball at all.

Fair enough. Again, I was giong on my experiences in my neck of the woods. Once we hit the QF in the NYC playoffs we start using 3-person crews. I can't think of the last time I saw an official on one of those games who didn't work a decent amount (15-20 games/season) of college ball as well.

On a different note: for those who think play #3 could be a non-shooting foul I'm curious as to why. Regarding OKREF's comment, her shooting motion may have started after she was hit but the habitual motion before the shot appears to have begun prior to the hit.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I have to tell this funny story.

I was watching a couple of my playoff games this week online. One of the teams that we had twice was had their local radio commentators doing the broadcast along with the video. First of all they got my name wrong (kind of hard to do when I am the only Black person working in the entire regional and one guy was Hispanic and had an Hispanic sounding name) all week. And then when I had two fouls that resulted in shots being counted, they misrepresented what I had signaled. Now my signal might not be purely out fo the book from a look standpoint, but it clearly could not be anything else but counting the basket as my hand comes downward from a "foul signal" mechanic. They said about 3 times that, "He signalled to the floor." I just had to laugh and wonder how stupid they sounded when clearly I would go to the table and count the basket before reporting the number of the player that fouled. I guess the only conclusion other than pure ignorance on their part (and that was there all week) was that officials must be signalling to the floor often when they are not calling a shooting foul. I even had a foul in one of the games where I waved off a shot by waving my arms and they still did not "get it."

JRut, I do some b'casting myself (hockey and other sports if I can get them). I've always loved the "wait, it looks like they've changed the foul to..." comment. I always start screaming at the screen, "Um, no, they didn't change the foul! You guys just identified the wrong guy!"

[zm1283]

All I have to say about these clips is

[Adam]

Wow, I just watched them. While 3 is close, I'm still giving her that shot. And the first three are all at the Iowa State Tournament (Final 8 teams of each class) in Des Moines.

Maybe once a season will I hear a coach ask "wasn't he/she shooting?"

More often, I hear, "Wasn't it on the floor?"

[RadioBlue]

All but 4 look like shooting fouls to me. I think in #4 you might have a patient whistle there and the foul actually occurring on the feed pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by RadioBlue

All but 4 look like shooting fouls to me. I think in #4 you might have a patient whistle there and the foul actually occurring on the feed pass.

If he's calling that "bump", he needs to be slightly more patient and let it go (IMO). Calling it after your inside beast has the ball and a 4-foot jumper just looks horrible. And you've rewarded the defense for poor defense. It's like calling the hack on the wrist in transition as the pass is landing in the hands of a wide open teammate, in stride, for a layup.

[deecee]

Yup all 3 look like they should be shooting foul shots. Also the last 2 are from me old alma mater in So Cal.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Adam

If he's calling that "bump", he needs to be slightly more patient and let it go (IMO). Calling it after your inside beast has the ball and a 4-foot jumper just looks horrible. And you've rewarded the defense for poor defense. It's like calling the hack on the wrist in transition as the pass is landing in the hands of a wide open teammate, in stride, for a layup.

I agree with you completely here but my issue with the patient whistle is that it does have an expiration. Like the hack on the wrist. Do you wait to see how badly was the pass altered before calling the foul?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

I agree with you completely here but my issue with the patient whistle is that it does have an expiration. Like the hack on the wrist. Do you wait to see how badly was the pass altered before calling the foul?

It depends on the contact and if there is a question that the contact affected the play. I would say sometimes yes. Just like you see a bump and you wait to see if the player falls or loses their balance.

Peace

[kk13]

Some people are questioning #3. It looks to me like she had "collected" was fouled and then completed the try. AND ONE in my book!

[Scuba_ref]

Originally Posted by OKREF

1,2,4, and 5 for certain. On 3, looks like the shooting motion started after the foul.

The gather was well before the foul on #3. Not even a question in my mind! Send her to the line. The shooting motion starts when the ball is gathered and the dribble has ended.

[chapmaja]

#1, #2, #5 are definitely shooting fouls. The only thing I can see the officials ruling in #5 is he was passing the ball to the trailer, but I think the ball is "blocked" back to him, rather than passed back.

#3 Likely is because she is gathering to go up when the contact is made.

#4 I'm not as sure about, because it looks like the defender pushes the post player in the back before he even makes his pivot. If this is what the official calls (with a late whistle), then it is one the floor. If it was when he pivoted, which also definitely occurs, then it should have been shooting. It's either a late whistle or a bad call.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

#4 I'm not as sure about, because it looks like the defender pushes the post player in the back before he even makes his pivot. If this is what the official calls (with a late whistle), then it is one the floor. If it was when he pivoted, which also definitely occurs, then it should have been shooting. It's either a late whistle or a bad call.

But there is no such thing. You are either in the shooting motion or you are not. It would help if we could ask the official and maybe that is what they saw, but I give the benefit of the doubt to the shooter when I can.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

#1, #2, #5 are definitely shooting fouls. The only thing I can see the officials ruling in #5 is he was passing the ball to the trailer, but I think the ball is "blocked" back to him, rather than passed back.

#3 Likely is because she is gathering to go up when the contact is made.

#4 I'm not as sure about, because it looks like the defender pushes the post player in the back before he even makes his pivot. If this is what the official calls (with a late whistle), then it is one the floor. If it was when he pivoted, which also definitely occurs, then it should have been shooting. It's either a late whistle or a bad call.

Sure, he was on the floor, but he was shooting. I would advise you to eliminate this phrase from your vocabulary with regard to calling fouls. Either you're misunderstanding the rule, or (more likely) you're using the term "On the floor" to mean "before the shot." In that case, what are you going to do when you call a shooting foul on the other end when the shooter was on the floor?

As for whether this was a late whistle. It probably was, but it's still a bad call, IMO. You don't want to get that push. And if you do, you have to get it fast. If you need to get this push because of previous actions that may escalate, a patient whistle is not your friend in that rare case.