I'll be Seeing These Guys Tomorrow

[Tim C]

OK, Oregon uses two person crews for all games at all times for all genders completely through the state championship games.

Cameron will come here and will say he sees a change coming (that means for the first time Oregon has developed a committee to review going to 3 person crews) the sticking point is Title 9 and GV.

As an ex-basketball official (for 25 years) I see no advantage at all in the extra official in 99% of high school games that I have observed over the past five years.

Just sayin"

T

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Tim C

OK, Oregon uses two person crews for all games at all times for all genders completely through the state championship games.

Cameron will come here and will say he sees a change coming (that means for the first time Oregon has developed a committee to review going to 3 person crews) the sticking point is Title 9 and GV.

As an ex-basketball official (for 25 years) I see no advantage at all in the extra official in 99% of high school games that I have observed over the past five years.

Just sayin"

T

You must be observing some pretty boring games then.

No missed off-ball screens?

No missed fouls on shooters when L is screened off and T is too far away (or vice versa)?

Nothing missed in rebounding action with all those bodies in the paint?

No close games where getting those missed calls would have made a difference? Or the "guess" call be an out of position official that did make a difference? No games where a third set of eyes would have made a difference?

Find that all really hard to believe.

[fullor30]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

You must be observing some pretty boring games then.

No missed off-ball screens?

No missed fouls on shooters when L is screened off and T is too far away (or vice versa)?

Nothing missed in rebounding action with all those bodies in the paint?

No close games where getting those missed calls would have made a difference? Or the "guess" call be an out of position official that did make a difference? No games where a third set of eyes would have made a difference?

Find that all really hard to believe.

I don't find it hard to believe, I find it impossible.

I do a few soph tournies over Christmas and it's two man, so I can speak first hand, I miss plenty.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by tjones1

Wow. No thanks.

+1

Originally Posted by fullor30

I don't find it hard to believe, I find it impossible.

I do a few soph tournies over Christmas and it's two man, so I can speak first hand, I miss plenty.

And +1000 from experience.

Peace

[Tim C]

I admit freely that over the last 30 years the game, even at the high school level, has evolved.

Bigger and faster players like in all levels of all sports.

For you guys to take a shot like I have worked bigger and faster kids don't comment on something you know nothing about.

I will assure you that I worked basketball at a higher level than many of you.

I am just of the opinion that trends always work there way down from NBA, to College to high school. We see a trend.

True I only watched about 30 high school games this years (including watching Cameron @ the Les Schawb Christmas tourney) and, as in all sports, calls average out over a quarter, a game and a season.

Just sayin"

T

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by Tim C

I will assure you that I worked basketball at a higher level than many of you.

I would suggest you take your own advice and not comment about something you know nothing about.

I am incredulous that anybody who has EVER worked 2 man v. 3 man can make the the assertion that there is no advantage to a third official. Simple geometry of court coverage would go against your claim.

[Tim C]

All 3 person crew does is cover for lazy officials.

Work the game and all will be find.

And you are right . .. I retired long before three person crews. I just know what I see.

let's work four person crews so we really cover anything . . . how about five person crews with a person just managing the bench area.

Soft.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Tim C

All 3 person crew does is cover for lazy officials.

Work the game and all will be find.

And you are right . .. I retired long before three person crews. I just know what I see.

let's work four person crews so we really cover anything . . . how about five person crews with a person just managing the bench area.

Soft.

Ignorance and arrogance.

Nice combo.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Ignorance and arrogance.

Nice combo.

Not really. He's expressing his observations - there's nothing arrogant about that at all. He says that HE sees no difference. I, for one, completely believe that.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Not really. He's expressing his observations - there's nothing arrogant about that at all. He says that HE sees no difference. I, for one, completely believe that.

All 3 person crew does is cover for lazy officials.



And you are right . .. I retired long before three person crews. I just know what I see.

"Soft."

These are the comments I referred to as ignorant and arrogant.

Having never worked 3-man he is apparently ignorant to the benefits of it when he makes the statement, "ALL it does is cover for lazy officials." That is pure ignorance. Plain and simple.

He's entitled to his opinion and observation that he sees no difference. And you can believe it all you want as well.

But to say that ALL 3 person does is cover for lazy officials and that it's "soft" is ignorance and, combined with some of his other comments, arrogant as well.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Tim C

All 3 person crew does is cover for lazy officials.

Work the game and all will be find.

And you are right . .. I retired long before three person crews. I just know what I see.

let's work four person crews so we really cover anything . . . how about five person crews with a person just managing the bench area.

Soft.

Like I already said,

[Brad]

Originally Posted by Tim C

All 3 person crew does is cover for lazy officials.

I wish I had a "Trolltastic" award to give you for that comment. Nice work.

Originally Posted by Tim C

let's work four person crews so we really cover anything . . . how about five person crews with a person just managing the bench area.

There are some NCAA and NBA games where a 4th official could help in certain situations!

[Tim C]

Actually I know quite a bit I AM FAR FROM IGNORANT.

Arrogant (not), cocky yes.

You guys just can't accept an opinion different from your own.

In Oregon I will fight forever to be cost conscience and not support three person crews.

That is my personal opinion and I will retain it.

The problem with these sites is that the officials are very non-receptive of any other opinions than their own.

Cost is an issue. Ignore it if you want but your are pricing yourself out of the market.

I am writing an article right now for High School Today titled "Can We Afford High School Athletics?"

Not sure we can . . .


T

[APG]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Actually I know quite a bit I AM FAR FROM IGNORANT.

Arrogant (not), cocky yes.

You guys just can't accept an opinion different from your own.

In Oregon I will fight forever to be cost conscience and not support three person crews.

That is my personal opinion and I will retain it.

The problem with these sites is that the officials are very non-receptive of any other opinions than their own.

Cost is an issue. Ignore it if you want but your are pricing yourself out of the market.

I am writing an article right now for High School Today titled "Can We Afford High School Athletics?"

Not sure we can . . .


T

Hard to be receptive to an opinion that 3 person is only to cover for lazy officials. No one on an officiating forum is going to be receptive to that. Seriously, what did you expect the response to be?

If your opinion is games in high school should stay 2-person due to cost reasons, that's a lot more reasonable position to take then simply stating that 3 person is just to cover for lazy officials.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Actually I know quite a bit I AM FAR FROM IGNORANT.

Arrogant (not), cocky yes.

You guys just can't accept an opinion different from your own.

In Oregon I will fight forever to be cost conscience and not support three person crews.

That is my personal opinion and I will retain it.

The problem with these sites is that the officials are very non-receptive of any other opinions than their own.

Cost is an issue. Ignore it if you want but your are pricing yourself out of the market.

I am writing an article right now for High School Today titled "Can We Afford High School Athletics?"

Not sure we can . . .


T

You're cocky but not arrogant? Whatever dude....good luck with your writing career.

As APG said if you want to argue the cost for high schools of 3 person vs 2 person that is one you can make but it is entirely different than saying, "all 3 person does is make officials lazy."

And the cost argument is a weak one. If whether or not "we" can afford high school sports" comes down to an extra official for basketball games for a certain school district or area then they probably can't afford scholastic sports. Because to say that is a deciding factor the overall affordability of all scholastic sports is simply ridiculous.

And who is pricing themselves out of the market? I work all 3 person varsity ball and if that were to change I would not officiate HS ball anymore. Another ignorant statement.