Marginally interesting article

[rsl]

Here is some referee press from Utah.

Schools struggle with fairness in high school officiating

Because boys have three man and girls don't, the girls never see the best refs.

[JetMetFan]

If there's anyone in the forum out there from Utah one thing I'd like to know is how are games played out there, specifically are the boys' and girls' games assigned as doubleheaders?

When I worked in GA our games were assigned as DHs with the girls' game first. You got the same crew for both games so there wasn't as much of a concern about "strong" vs. "weak" officials since it was the same three people. If Utah did that it would cut down on that issue.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Jetmet-
you read my mind.here games are assigned for the most part as doubleheaders
JV Girls 3PM
JV Boys 4:30 PM
Varsity Girls 6PM
Varsity Boys 7:30 PM

A team of 2 comes in and works both JV games,followed by another team of 2 for varsity.One home date this year was varsity only and that had one official assigned to both with a lady coming in for the girls game and a guy replacing her for the boys game.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Jetmet-
you read my mind.here games are assigned for the most part as doubleheaders
JV Girls 3PM
JV Boys 4:30 PM
Varsity Girls 6PM
Varsity Boys 7:30 PM

A team of 2 comes in and works both JV games,followed by another team of 2 for varsity.One home date this year was varsity only and that had one official assigned to both with a lady coming in for the girls game and a guy replacing her for the boys game.

Do you ever have trouble getting officials for such early games? I can't even make 4:30 games very often, I can't imagine getting there at 2:30 or earlier for a game on a weekday.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

no although a lot of times the JV officials will show up about 20 minutes prior to tip.I've had only a couple of JV officials show up even 45 minutes prior to tip.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Do you ever have trouble getting officials for such early games? I can't even make 4:30 games very often, I can't imagine getting there at 2:30 or earlier for a game on a weekday.

NYC publics start the vast majority of Varsity games at 4:30P (used to be 4P). Some guys have issues but those are the same guys who'd probably be late for a 6P tip as well.

[just another ref]

"To add a third one, if he or she isn't good, then by all means no, we don't want three. I don't want a one (the highest rating for an official) trying to overcompensate for a four or five (lower-rated officials)."

I've heard this before. Schools don't want to provide paid training time for the new official on the crew on a given night. Hard to blame them for this.

Then they get to the boys level, and if they have to come back and do girls, they're not nearly as good as when all they could do were girls' games.

I find this hard to believe, unless some of the guys do adopt the attitude that they are now above calling the girls game and obviously dog it. For the most part, I think it's more a case of ugly basketball makes for ugly officiating.

.....it's almost unfair to ask the girls to play all season with two officials and then adjust to three in the tournament.

And this is just a crock.

[rsl]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If there's anyone in the forum out there from Utah one thing I'd like to know is how are games played out there, specifically are the boys' and girls' games assigned as doubleheaders?

When I worked in GA our games were assigned as DHs with the girls' game first. You got the same crew for both games so there wasn't as much of a concern about "strong" vs. "weak" officials since it was the same three people. If Utah did that it would cut down on that issue.

This is actually suggested by the state assigner in the article as a solution, and rejected by the girls coaches. Apparently there are concerns that not all facilities can handle boys and girls in the same night, and the girls do not want to be early game all the time.

[rsl]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If there's anyone in the forum out there from Utah one thing I'd like to know is how are games played out there, specifically are the boys' and girls' games assigned as doubleheaders?

If there is only one gender, the Utah schedule is almost always

3:30 Soph
5:15 JV
7:00 Varsity

If there are both genders at the same time, then it is

3:30 Boys Soph in main Gym, and girls JV in Auxiliary Gym
5:15 Girls Varsity in Main Gym and Boys JV in Auxiliary Gym
7:00 Boys Varsity in Main Gym and girls Soph in Auxiliary Gym

But not all schools have adequate lockers or aux gym for both genders. For now, most games are not assigned as double headers unless the assigner is having trouble getting refs. We have either 3 or 6 crews at the facility each night. Double headers are assigned frequently at remote sites to reduce travel, but at metro sites each crew does just one game.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by rsl

If there is only one gender, the Utah schedule is almost always

3:30 Soph
5:15 JV
7:00 Varsity

If there are both genders at the same time, then it is

3:30 Boys Soph in main Gym, and girls JV in Auxiliary Gym
5:15 Girls Varsity in Main Gym and Boys JV in Auxiliary Gym
7:00 Boys Varsity in Main Gym and girls Soph in Auxiliary Gym

But not all schools have adequate lockers or aux gym for both genders. For now, most games are not assigned as double headers unless the assigner is having trouble getting refs. We have either 3 or 6 crews at the facility each night. Double headers are assigned frequently at remote sites to reduce travel, but at metro sites each crew does just one game.

Nevada currently uses this schedule in the largest classification:
At school A:
3:30 subvarsity contest
5:15 GV
7:00 BV
At school B:
3:30 subvarsity
5:15 subvarsity
7:00 subvarsity

The subvarsity games (GF, BF, GJV, BJV) rotate from year to year through the four different possible slots.

If an area is going to have both genders at the same site, I favor the way that the smaller schools do it.
At school A:
3:00 GJV; 4:30 BJV; 6:00 GV; 7:30 BV
With the two freshmen games at school B, if the schools have them.

NV uses 3-man for all varsity games both boys and girls at D1 and D2, while using 2-man at the D3 and D4 levels. All subvarsity is 2-man.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I should state that there is one school in our league with multiple gyms.When playing at that site the schedule is as follows:
4:30 PM-JV Girls-Secondary Gym
4:30 PM-JV Boys-Main Gym
6:00 PM-Varsity Girls-Main Gym
7:30 PM-Varsity Boys-Main Gym

So this school on league home nights requests three crews of officials.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

I should state that there is one school in our league with multiple gyms.When playing at that site the schedule is as follows:
4:30 PM-JV Girls-Secondary Gym
4:30 PM-JV Boys-Main Gym
6:00 PM-Varsity Girls-Main Gym
7:30 PM-Varsity Boys-Main Gym

So this school on league home nights requests three crews of officials.

And which games are worked by each of the three crews? Obviously different crews are working the two 4:30 contents, but does one stick around and also work the GV game or does a new crew come in and work both varsity games?

[26 Year Gap]

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by rsl

Because boys have three man and girls don't, the girls never see the best refs.

Not here. Even the lowliest, most unskilled girls' games have 3-(hu)man varsity, same as the boys'. I always thought it was a Title IX issue that has driven that. Maybe not........

Just got home from a girls varsity game with a local team who ended up rated high in the state for about the fourth straight year. At that site they actually often have scheduled the boys' varsity game as the first game of a doubleheader because the girls' team is the real draw. They play the girls' game first and many people exit prior to the boys' game. Weird.

They went to 20-0 today. Running clock coming out of the locker room at the half. Nice....

[Rich]

Thankfully, officials where I live are free to work all boys games, all girls games, or a mixture. Nobody is forced to work any games they may not want to work.

Personally, I worked about 70% boys this season and will be working 100% this year. After working nothing but boys games for 3 weeks, I really struggled with the (slower) pace and the differing expectations of the girls game.

I'd be thrilled if we were licensed separately in the two genders - as is done with baseball and softball. At least when someone calls me to cover a softball game, I can quickly say "I am not licensed in softball" and it ends the conversation. When someone asks me to work a girls game, I have to be more careful in how I respond. "I don't work girls games" is not taken well by some people.