Marginally interesting article

[rsl]

Here is some referee press from Utah.

Schools struggle with fairness in high school officiating

Because boys have three man and girls don't, the girls never see the best refs.

[JetMetFan]

If there's anyone in the forum out there from Utah one thing I'd like to know is how are games played out there, specifically are the boys' and girls' games assigned as doubleheaders?

When I worked in GA our games were assigned as DHs with the girls' game first. You got the same crew for both games so there wasn't as much of a concern about "strong" vs. "weak" officials since it was the same three people. If Utah did that it would cut down on that issue.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Jetmet-
you read my mind.here games are assigned for the most part as doubleheaders
JV Girls 3PM
JV Boys 4:30 PM
Varsity Girls 6PM
Varsity Boys 7:30 PM

A team of 2 comes in and works both JV games,followed by another team of 2 for varsity.One home date this year was varsity only and that had one official assigned to both with a lady coming in for the girls game and a guy replacing her for the boys game.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

Jetmet-
you read my mind.here games are assigned for the most part as doubleheaders
JV Girls 3PM
JV Boys 4:30 PM
Varsity Girls 6PM
Varsity Boys 7:30 PM

A team of 2 comes in and works both JV games,followed by another team of 2 for varsity.One home date this year was varsity only and that had one official assigned to both with a lady coming in for the girls game and a guy replacing her for the boys game.

Do you ever have trouble getting officials for such early games? I can't even make 4:30 games very often, I can't imagine getting there at 2:30 or earlier for a game on a weekday.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

no although a lot of times the JV officials will show up about 20 minutes prior to tip.I've had only a couple of JV officials show up even 45 minutes prior to tip.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Do you ever have trouble getting officials for such early games? I can't even make 4:30 games very often, I can't imagine getting there at 2:30 or earlier for a game on a weekday.

NYC publics start the vast majority of Varsity games at 4:30P (used to be 4P). Some guys have issues but those are the same guys who'd probably be late for a 6P tip as well.

[just another ref]

"To add a third one, if he or she isn't good, then by all means no, we don't want three. I don't want a one (the highest rating for an official) trying to overcompensate for a four or five (lower-rated officials)."

I've heard this before. Schools don't want to provide paid training time for the new official on the crew on a given night. Hard to blame them for this.

Then they get to the boys level, and if they have to come back and do girls, they're not nearly as good as when all they could do were girls' games.

I find this hard to believe, unless some of the guys do adopt the attitude that they are now above calling the girls game and obviously dog it. For the most part, I think it's more a case of ugly basketball makes for ugly officiating.

.....it's almost unfair to ask the girls to play all season with two officials and then adjust to three in the tournament.

And this is just a crock.

[JRutledge]

It is hard enough to keep up with a tough boys game on one night and I do not know how I would be able to be focused to work a girls game in the same night (different talent level, different style of play and different expectations).

So glad we do not do that crap around here or we have gotten away from that stuff. I think all this double header stuff makes people decide not to officiate in the first place. Maybe this is why in basketball there is almost no shortage.

Peace

[26 Year Gap]

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by rsl

Because boys have three man and girls don't, the girls never see the best refs.

Not here. Even the lowliest, most unskilled girls' games have 3-(hu)man varsity, same as the boys'. I always thought it was a Title IX issue that has driven that. Maybe not........

Just got home from a girls varsity game with a local team who ended up rated high in the state for about the fourth straight year. At that site they actually often have scheduled the boys' varsity game as the first game of a doubleheader because the girls' team is the real draw. They play the girls' game first and many people exit prior to the boys' game. Weird.

They went to 20-0 today. Running clock coming out of the locker room at the half. Nice....

[Rich]

Thankfully, officials where I live are free to work all boys games, all girls games, or a mixture. Nobody is forced to work any games they may not want to work.

Personally, I worked about 70% boys this season and will be working 100% this year. After working nothing but boys games for 3 weeks, I really struggled with the (slower) pace and the differing expectations of the girls game.

I'd be thrilled if we were licensed separately in the two genders - as is done with baseball and softball. At least when someone calls me to cover a softball game, I can quickly say "I am not licensed in softball" and it ends the conversation. When someone asks me to work a girls game, I have to be more careful in how I respond. "I don't work girls games" is not taken well by some people.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Thankfully, officials where I live are free to work all boys games, all girls games, or a mixture. Nobody is forced to work any games they may not want to work.

Personally, I worked about 70% boys this season and will be working 100% this year. After working nothing but boys games for 3 weeks, I really struggled with the (slower) pace and the differing expectations of the girls game.

I'd be thrilled if we were licensed separately in the two genders - as is done with baseball and softball. At least when someone calls me to cover a softball game, I can quickly say "I am not licensed in softball" and it ends the conversation. When someone asks me to work a girls game, I have to be more careful in how I respond. "I don't work girls games" is not taken well by some people.

As you know there are no restrictions here either, but people just choose not to work both or certain assigners do not consider an official good enough to work boys basketball or certain conference level basketball. And right now the 1A/2A girls state finals are going on this weekend, well people like me would never want to work that stuff and would have to choose on some level as the boys 3A/4A season just ended last night. We just have a choice and I feel blessed that I can choose what to work when I leave my house.

Peace

[deecee]

Originally Posted by rsl

Because boys have three man and girls don't, the girls never see the best refs.

The girls never see the best refs because its a girls game. Just a fact. Most officials, if asked what they would rather work, will answer boys.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

As you know there are no restrictions here either, but people just choose not to work both or certain assigners do not consider an official good enough to work boys basketball or certain conference level basketball. And right now the 1A/2A girls state finals are going on this weekend, well people like me would never want to work that stuff and would have to choose on some level as the boys 3A/4A season just ended last night. We just have a choice and I feel blessed that I can choose what to work when I leave my house.

Peace

Yup, I know the scene down there, too. We used to work for 2 assignors down there (one of whom was a great guy and I was sorry to hear he passed a couple of years back). In 5 years down there, we never worked a girls game, come to think of it.

I see no need to force someone to work a girls game just so "they get good refs too." The officials shouldn't be forced to work games they don't want to work. Most officials here work both. Some work only boys, some work only girls. No big deal, really.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Yup, I know the scene down there, too. We used to work for 2 assignors down there (one of whom was a great guy and I was sorry to hear he passed a couple of years back). In 5 years down there, we never worked a girls game, come to think of it.

I see no need to force someone to work a girls game just so "they get good refs too." The officials shouldn't be forced to work games they don't want to work. Most officials here work both. Some work only boys, some work only girls. No big deal, really.

The only people that really make a big deal about that are people that only work girls games in my experience and have to justify their place in the pecking order of recognition. Usually when I am asked about not working girls basketball, it is usually those officials that make a big deal out of that fact. Otherwise it is not much of an issue. As I said we have different classes and someone working a 1A boys game is not necessarily qualified to work 3A or 4A ball with D1 players and above the rim play common. It is more about ability of what you are used to than anything. Gender only is a one part of that equation.

Peace