Whoops...

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If I understand this all correctly, why would the first two FTs have been unmerited?

Team B had 4 FTs coming its way for the two Ts. Take the result of the first four FTs, eliminate the result of #5, give Team B the ball at the division line and the AP arrow stays where it was before all the craziness began.

This is correct per a couple of past NFHS rulings.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is correct per a couple of past NFHS rulings.

Which are?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Loose ball...players scrambling...tie up...whistle...AP.

A1 pushes B1...R gives T to A1...as R is reporting...A1 goes after B1 yelling that he is going to get him...U1 seperates (but does not blow whistle for a T)...U1 goes to R and tells him to upgrade to second T and ejection...R says "are you sure we want to eject A1?"...U1 is adamant and says "YES"...

They decide to eject A1 and U1 goes to administer the FT's...

U1 looks up and sees 10 fouls on board for team A...U1 forgets that it was an AP that started all this...and puts up 2 fingers for B2 who is at the line...

B2 misses first FT and makes second FT...B2 stays at line to shoot the next FT's (4 more shots, in U1's mind, for the two technical fouls on A1)

B2 makes the next 3 FT's... A Coach says, "why is B2 shooting an extra FT"...

Officials now realize that U1 gave B2 an extra FT and stops U1 from administering another FT...

B2 had 5 shots and made 4...

Whatta ya got?

There should have been 4 free throws awarded to Team B. Two for each Technical Foul. The first FT was missed, then the next three were made. That should have been the end of the FT's. Therefore 3 made free throws should be scored.

The extra free throw is cancelled and Team B gets a division line throw in. (Rule 2-10-1b)

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

Loose ball...players scrambling...tie up...whistle...AP.

A1 pushes B1...R gives T to A1...as R is reporting...A1 goes after B1 yelling that he is going to get him...U1 seperates (but does not blow whistle for a T)...U1 goes to R and tells him to upgrade to second T and ejection...R says "are you sure we want to eject A1?"...U1 is adamant and says "YES"...

They decide to eject A1 and U1 goes to administer the FT's...

U1 looks up and sees 10 fouls on board for team A...U1 forgets that it was an AP that started all this...and puts up 2 fingers for B2 who is at the line...

B2 misses first FT and makes second FT...B2 stays at line to shoot the next FT's (4 more shots, in U1's mind, for the two technical fouls on A1)

B2 makes the next 3 FT's... A Coach says, "why is B2 shooting an extra FT"...

Officials now realize that U1 gave B2 an extra FT and stops U1 from administering another FT...

B2 had 5 shots and made 4...

Whatta ya got?

I've got a question......

Did the crew get together after the R was done at the table and before U1 began administering the FT's to review as a crew the sequence of events... starting with the held ball, number of shots, the throw-in to follow the FT's, and the current status of the AP arrow?

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

I've got a question......

Did the crew get together after the R was done at the table and before U1 began administering the FT's to review as a crew the sequence of events... starting with the held ball, number of shots, the throw-in to follow the FT's, and the current status of the AP arrow?

I wasn't there...but, I do not believe the crew got together before U1 administered the FT's. (That isn't so out of the ordinary either)

Nevada...do you have those NFHS rulings available to see? If so...I guess I owe the refreshments.

chapmaja...I realize Rule 2-10-1b is about awarding "unmerited free throw"...
our discussion is if the unmerited FT was at the start of the sequence or at the end of the sequence of FT's.

Especially since U1 admitted he gave the 1st 2 FT's because he thought they were in the double bonus and forgot the AP was in play.

Camron? Adam? ...any help here?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

A1 pushes B1...


U1 looks up and sees 10 fouls on board for team A...U1 forgets that it was an AP that started all this...and puts up 2 fingers for B2 who is at the line...

For some reason when I first read this I thought that U1 had designated B2 as the shooter, but apparently that is not the case, and B1 is the one who was pushed. But while having the wrong shooter at the line is a problem, it happens all the time and is a separate problem from the issue at hand.

But I still stick with my original assessment. U1 says that he awarded bonus free throws, and these were not merited.

But for those who say that "a free throw is a free throw" and wipe out the last one, this is not unreasonable and I can live with it.

[Adam]

Pending Nevada (or someone else) posting the rulings from the Fed:

First, I have a question, was the official awarding the first two free throws as bonus free throws? If so, it seems the first two were erroneous. If not, then the last one was erroneous.

Since B2 was not the fouled player, it's a pretty hard sell to consider the first two erroneous. That would make it a "wrong player incorrectly being awarded two unmerited free throws" or something similarly redundant. If he had instructed B1 to shoot those first two free throws, it would obviously be the first two shots that were to be cancelled. I'm inclined to go that route if that was the thinking for the administering official.

That said, since B obviously had their best (or chosen) shooter on the line for all 5, I'm equally comfortable with declaring the first four valid.

I'm honestly not sure there's a right answer here short of a very clear interpretation from NFHS (or your state).

Final question: Why was the R questioning the decision to toss the kid?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

First, I have a question, was the official awarding the first two free throws as bonus free throws?

Asked and answered.

Originally Posted by RookieDude

.... U1 admitted he gave the 1st 2 FT's because he thought they were in the double bonus and forgot the AP was in play.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by Adam

Final question: Why was the R questioning the decision to toss the kid?

Computer is messed up...short answer (before it screws up again)...R did not like the fact that U1 didn't whistle and show a T...R thought it would look bad to eject and thought one Twould be sufficient.