Players not in book

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Not if they've already been beckoned.

Is there a rule basis for this? Or is it a local philosophy?

Personally, I'd give the coach the option to withdraw the sub. Just the other night I beckoned a player during a free throw only to have the coach pull him back before he came in. He's not a player until he plays, IMO.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

He's not a player until he plays, IMO.

A substitute becomes a player when he legally enters the court. 4-34-3

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A substitute becomes a player when he legally enters the court. 4-34-3

I understand that. I'm just saying that in this case, I'm giving some latitude to prevent the player from entering if the coach wants to prevent the T.

Either way, whether he's beckoned or not doesn't really matter here. If I beckon him, and the coach pulls him back before he enters, then my latitude isn't even necessary.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

I understand that. I'm just saying that in this case, I'm giving some latitude to prevent the player from entering if the coach wants to prevent the T.

Either way, whether he's beckoned or not doesn't really matter here. If I beckon him, and the coach pulls him back before he enters, then my latitude isn't even necessary.

I'm may not be picturing this right. You beckon the sub. He enters. Somebody tells the coach this player is not in the book. I think it's too late at this point to pull him back.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm may not be picturing this right. You beckon the sub. He enters. Somebody tells the coach this player is not in the book. I think it's too late at this point to pull him back.

I agree with this. And on a side note, an illegal number such as 17, is a direct to the HC, thus loss of the box.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

On a side note, an illegal number such as 17, is a direct to the HC, thus loss of the box.

... and then the team member with the illegal uniform, and all his teammates with illegal uniforms, may participate without further penalty and are not required to change their numbers, as a maximum of one technical foul shall be charged directly to the head coach regardless of the number of offenders.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'm may not be picturing this right. You beckon the sub. He enters. Somebody tells the coach this player is not in the book. I think it's too late at this point to pull him back.

My only real point is it is not being beckoned that matters here; it's whether the sub enters. JetMetFan declared once he's "beckoned," it's too late. By rule, I don't think that's right.

Now, whether you'd allow the coach to withdraw the sub after the player came onto the court but before play was resumed (as I might) is another story.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

My only real point is it is not being beckoned that matters here; it's whether the sub enters. JetMetFan declared once he's "beckoned," it's too late. By rule, I don't think that's right.

I'll buy this. But I think of those two events as happening at virtually the same time. It's hard for me to imagine the coach realizing the problem and grabbing the sub after the beckon.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I'll buy this. But I think of those two events as happening at virtually the same time. It's hard for me to imagine the coach realizing the problem and grabbing the sub after the beckon.

While this particular scenario is a long shot, it isn't uncommon to have a noticeable delay between a player being beckoned and actually entering the court: especially in high school.

I actually had a coach pull back a sub after I beckoned him Friday.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

JetMetFan declared once he's "beckoned," it's too late. By rule, I don't think that's right.

Interesting? I'm not disagreeing, but, which rule? Please expound upon your thought.