Another blarge - Missouri State at Creighton

[Scrapper1]

Neither one had a fist. Duh

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

No...he's pointing at the player who fouled.

The pointing is really unnecessary then. It's not like there are more than 2 bodies on the floor.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by maven

How'd they handle the blarge?

I don't think anyone on the Missouri State bench saw the Lead give the PC signal. He put his arm down pretty quickly when he saw the C with the block signal. They acted like it didn't happen and went with the block.

I know we're talking about the L and C here, but the T has a great look at this play if you pause it at the point of contact. Not saying he should come in and get it, but he has a good look.

[johnny d]

I don't prescribe to all secondary defenders in the paint belonging to the Lead.


it isnt relevent whether or not you subscribe to this philosophy. the philosophy as stated is how these plays are expected to be officiated at that level.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

I don't prescribe to all secondary defenders in the paint belonging to the Lead.


it isnt relevent whether or not you subscribe to this philosophy. the philosophy as stated is how these plays are expected to be officiated at that level.

Well, I occasionally work that rule set and I'm not the only who doesn't prescribe to it. I have not had any supervisor tell me that the entire paint belongs to the Lead if a secondary defender appears. What if the Lead has post players and the ball-handler dribbles away from the Trail towards the C and has a crash with a SD just below the free throw line right in front of the C? You're telling me that belongs to the Lead?

[johnny d]

no, i am telling you that lead is the primary on secondary defenders in the lane, not that the c cannot have a call on these plays. both officials should have gone with fists before preliminary signal, but the center should know he is secondary on this type of play and should be aware of that before he goes right to block signal.

[johnny d]

and you are forgetting the part of the philosophy that the lead has primary on contact with secondary defender when the play is going towards the basket. in the play you bring up, that is clearly not the case, therefore, the stated philosophy does not apply. now if you want to compare apples to apples we can, otherwise please feel free to bring up other exceptions.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by SAJ

Is the C pointing to the RA after the call? It appears so, but the defender wasn't even close to it.

Agree.

Originally Posted by maven

How'd they handle the blarge?

Didn't. They had just a block as others have stated. However, the video doesn't lie.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well, I occasionally work that rule set and I'm not the only who doesn't prescribe to it.

Of course you don't prescribe to it. Nobody prescribes to it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

and you are forgetting the part of the philosophy that the lead has primary on contact with secondary defender when the play is going towards the basket. in the play you bring up, that is clearly not the case, therefore, the stated philosophy does not apply. now if you want to compare apples to apples we can, otherwise please feel free to bring up other exceptions.

Not my fault you said this "no, i am telling you that lead is the primary on secondary defenders in the lane" apparently leaving out the core of the apple.

Here's an apple, A1 beats B1 coming down the middle of the court, Lead has 2 large post players jostling with each other on the bottom block, B2 from C's primary slides into the paint a couple inches below the free throw line and on the C's side of the paint. A1 crashes into B2. This is the Lead's primary even though he is already offciating an engaged matchup in his primary?

[twocentsworth]

A couple of thoughts here:
- BOTH C & L should have had a fist.
- This was a PC.
- Plays are ALWAYS easier to get right when they are coming towards you, rather than away from you.
- It's very difficult for an official to see thru/past a primary defender (who just got beat) AND the offensive player to see the secondary/"new" defender.
- The double whistle "areas" really require a "patient" whistle.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

A couple of thoughts here:
...- It's very difficult for an official to see thru/past a primary defender (who just got beat) AND the offensive player to see the secondary/"new" defender.
....

In this play the C never had to look through or past the primary defender. The primary defender took himself out the play and away from the C.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by johnny d

first, i have player control foul.

second, in ncaam, lead has primary on all drives to the basket when contact occurs inside free throw line and lane lines. especially when contact is with a secondary defender, as was the case in this play. at this level, this was leads call all the way, c should have had his fist up.

See the now bold section of my original post. Seems pretty clear to me.

[johnny d]

[QUOTE=

Here's an apple, A1 beats B1 coming down the middle of the court, Lead has 2 large post players jostling with each other on the bottom block, B2 from C's primary slides into the paint a couple inches below the free throw line and on the C's side of the paint. A1 crashes into B2. This is the Lead's primary even though he is already offciating an engaged matchup in his primary?[/QUOTE]


Again, I never said that C or T cannot have whistles/calls on these plays, only that the L has the first crack at the play. Obviously, in the situation you describe, the L is probably going to be engaged in the matchup right in front of him and wont have a call, so it will be necessary for the C or T to cover this play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnny d

See the now bold section of my original post. Seems pretty clear to me.

What seems clear to me in the play being discussed is that B2 came from the C's primary and B2 had a foot outside the paint on the C's side when the crash occurred.

All day long that is the C's call in my games.