T for pregame warmups?

[WDEvol]

I know this varies based on the state/area, but I can't find anything in my state's guidelines about this.

Last night, MS boys. We've just finished the girls game (a thrilling, 16-10 barn-burner) and the boys' teams are about to come on the court for warmups. Locker rooms are opposite end of floor from where each team should be warming up. Visitors run out first, with half going under the basket and up one sideline, the other half down the other sideline.

My partner - who designated himself as the R for both games - leans over and says, with a big grin on his face, "Oh, I'm getting them for that. That's a technical foul." I responded that I didn't think so, since the home team wasn't out there yet and there couldn't have possibly been any sort of unsportsmanlike conduct aspect to it. He continued to insist on calling it. I continued to try to talk him out of it.

Well, he ends up calling it anyway. And then he also insists - despite my objections - to making both teams line up for the jump ball, pointing toward each goal ("blue this way, white this way"), and THEN signalling for the technical foul. We shot the FTs, gave A the ball, and away we went.

At that point, I was in straight-up GIGDGO mode. Anything I could have done differently?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by WDEvol

I know this varies based on the state/area, but I can't find anything in my state's guidelines about this.

Last night, MS boys. We've just finished the girls game (a thrilling, 16-10 barn-burner) and the boys' teams are about to come on the court for warmups. Locker rooms are opposite end of floor from where each team should be warming up. Visitors run out first, with half going under the basket and up one sideline, the other half down the other sideline.

My partner - who designated himself as the R for both games - leans over and says, with a big grin on his face, "Oh, I'm getting them for that. That's a technical foul." I responded that I didn't think so, since the home team wasn't out there yet and there couldn't have possibly been any sort of unsportsmanlike conduct aspect to it. He continued to insist on calling it. I continued to try to talk him out of it.

Well, he ends up calling it anyway. And then he also insists - despite my objections - to making both teams line up for the jump ball, pointing toward each goal ("blue this way, white this way"), and THEN signalling for the technical foul. We shot the FTs, gave A the ball, and away we went.

At that point, I was in straight-up GIGDGO mode. Anything I could have done differently?

You could have volunteered to be the R.

Maybe there was time to look this up before the game.

Certainly there was time it look it up and / or write "your organization" for confirmation after the game.

[WDEvol]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You could have volunteered to be the R.

Maybe there was time to look this up before the game.

Certainly there was time it look it up and / or write "your organization" for confirmation after the game.

Possibly. I could see calling a 'T' if the other team was already on the floor and there was taunting or some other unsportsmanlike conduct. I tried looking it up after I got home last night, but couldn't find anything in the 2012-13 rule book, case book or state officials' manual (Alabama prints its own manual, which is about 95% plagiarized from the NFHS manual with a few state-specific rules/mechanics sprinkled in). In reading some archived threads on this board, I see that this situation was a POE either last year or at some point in past years, but I see nothing in this year's rule book that prescribes a penalty for it.

And next time I'm with this guy, I'm just going to be the R, no questions asked. This is my first year in this area and with this association, and I'm quickly finding out which officials only get assigned to work middle school games. He's one of them, and it's pretty obvious why.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by WDEvol

Anything I could have done differently?

You could have found any reason to leave prior to the FTs for the T. Any reason. Think creative. Dead relative, car alarm going off, sudden erectile dysfunction, tornado warning, dizziness, whole-body convulsions, voices in your head, throw up . . . anything.


So how'd the rest of the game go? Or did you actually leave early?

[tomegun]

We handle this a little differently. You and your partner were on the court and that is a good thing. We used to have a problem with exchanging pleasantries with the crew that just finished in our dressing area which resulted in us not being on the court when the teams came out. Since you were both on the court, I would probably either 1) not do anything because the other team was not there and tell the coach afterwards or 2) physically stand in their way and tell them to take a different path.

Having them line up as normal and then call the T is puzzling to me. On a side note, I hate the ceremonial "white, blue" while pointing right before tossing the ball. The teams should have warmed up on the proper ends of the court and two or three officials should be looking to see if they are lined up correctly. The only way I'm going to yell colors ever again is if I will lose games for not doing it. Even then, it would depend on what games those are. But I digress.

It sounds like you made it out alive and with all of your faculties. It seems like you were aware of the BS going on, stated your case and got on with it. Sometimes, that is the best you can do.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by tomegun

We handle this a little differently. You and your partner were on the court and that is a good thing. We used to have a problem with exchanging pleasantries with the crew that just finished in our dressing area which resulted in us not being on the court when the teams came out. Since you were both on the court, I would probably either 1) not do anything because the other team was not there and tell the coach afterwards or 2) physically stand in their way and tell them to take a different path.

Having them line up as normal and then call the T is puzzling to me. On a side note, I hate the ceremonial "white, blue" while pointing right before tossing the ball. The teams should have warmed up on the proper ends of the court and two or three officials should be looking to see if they are lined up correctly. The only way I'm going to yell colors ever again is if I will lose games for not doing it. Even then, it would depend on what games those are. But I digress.

It sounds like you made it out alive and with all of your faculties. It seems like you were aware of the BS going on, stated your case and got on with it. Sometimes, that is the best you can do.

I had a partner recently that pointed each direction and announced which way the teams were going before tossing the ball. He also had a captain's meeting that was about a minute and a half long that included "We'll try to talk you out of fouls", "We want to keep you in the game", "Play defense with your feet", "We'll talk you out of three seconds"...and on and on.

[scrounge]

Sounds like not only an OOO, but one who took pleasure in being That Guy.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I had a partner recently that pointed each direction and announced which way the teams were going before tossing the ball. He also had a captain's meeting that was about a minute and a half long that included "We'll try to talk you out of fouls", "We want to keep you in the game", "Play defense with your feet", "We'll talk you out of three seconds"...and on and on.

We had a new third a few weeks ago and I think he was absolutely stunned at my 11 second long captains meeting. I was already at the table before he knew what had hit him.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I had a partner recently that pointed each direction and announced which way the teams were going before tossing the ball.

And what is wrong with what your partner did?

MTD, Sr.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And what is wrong with what your partner did?

MTD, Sr.

Nothing was inherently wrong with it, but not many people do it around here. Like tomegun said above, I'm not doing it unless it causes me to lose games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

And what is wrong with what your partner did?

MTD, Sr.

It's completely unnecessary. Maybe at lower levels it's helpful, but I'm not doing that at a varsity game. The teams are already lined up the right way, after all.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's completely unnecessary. Maybe at lower levels it's helpful, but I'm not doing that at a varsity game. The teams are already lined up the right way, after all.

Yea, I mean it isn't like some college officials recently let teams go the wrong direction in an overtime jump ball.

Maybe if they would have pointed and said it out loud, the mistake would have been noticed.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's completely unnecessary. Maybe at lower levels it's helpful, but I'm not doing that at a varsity game. The teams are already lined up the right way, after all.

There are many things I would consider completely unnecessary that we still do. I do this for all games I do including varsity and JUCO and never really knew it bothered some people.

I do it more as a formality. I don't say "going this way....." but simply white and point one direction then blue and point the other. Again more as a formality but it can also clarify what we are going to call teams with two syllable colors that night as I'm a one syllable guy. So it let's everyone know that orange is red tonight or purple is blue tonight, etc.

Not a big deal to me either way but in the OPs case of beginning the game with a T its absolutely absurd to still have them line up and do this.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's completely unnecessary. Maybe at lower levels it's helpful, but I'm not doing that at a varsity game. The teams are already lined up the right way, after all.

Ask the guys who officiated the Connecticut Marquette game a few weeks ago if it's completely unnecessary.

Speaking captain? What's your number (if covered with warmup jersey)? Are you starting?

Note: I hate working with this guy.

The National High School Federation and your state association require officials to enforce sportsmanship rules. High school athletics emphasize positive values. All of us have worked hard to create a sense of teamwork, respect, responsibility and perspective. We remind you that we expect good behavior and will quickly penalize misconduct. We encourage and appreciate your help. Let the competition reflect mutual respect among participants and officials. Coaches please certify that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according the NFHS rules. Good luck and have a great contest! (New Jersey State Interscholastic Athletic Association, Kentucky High School Athletic Association)

"PIAA requires all registered sports' officials to enforce the sportsmanship rules for coaches and contestants. Actions meant to demean opposing contestants, teams, spectators and officials are not in the highest ideals of interscholastic education and will not be tolerated. Let today's contest reflect mutual respect. Coaches please certify to the contest official(s) that your players are legally equipped and uniformed according to NFHS rules and PIAA adoptions. Good luck in today's contest." (Pennsylvania Interscholastic Athletic Association)

To captains: The FHSAA requires officials to enforce all rules regarding unsportsmanlike conduct by players and coaches. Violators will be ejected. It is strongly suggested that you remind your teammates and coaches of this policy. Additionally, this is a simple reminder that jewelry is not allowed, and jerseys must be tucked in during play if they are designed to be worn in. To coaches: Coaches, do you certify that your players are properly equipped and will demonstrate sportsmanlike behavior during today’s contest? (Florida High School Activities Association)

Originally Posted by zm1283

Nothing was inherently wrong with it.

When I'm the referee (and tossing), I perform the same routine at the start of every single game, from a Catholic middle school "junior varsity" game, up to a high school varsity game:

I look to the bench to my left, note, and state, the color, make sure the jumper to my left is the same color, and point to my right. Then I look to the bench on my right, note, and state, the color, make sure the jumper to my right is the same color, and point to my left.

Every single game, every single time.

I'm probably going to screw up a call, or a few calls, or a lot of calls, in that game, but I'm definitely not going to start the players going in the wrong direction.

Originally Posted by WDEvol

Locker rooms are opposite end of floor from where each team should be warming up. Visitors run out first, with half going under the basket and up one sideline, the other half down the other sideline.

2011-12 POINTS OF EMPHASIS

1. SPORTING BEHAVIOR. The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee continues to
be concerned about the following behaviors:

A. Pregame Situations. Teams entering the gymnasium prior to the contest
should not run through the area occupied by the opposing team or under
the basket where opponents are warming up. Teams should only enter, jog
or warm-up on their own half of the court. Gatherings intended to
motivate a team after the warm-up period, during or following player
introductions and post-game celebrations should be performed in the area
directly in front of the team bench. If during the pregame or half-time
warm-up period one team leaves the floor, the other team should not use
the entire court; teams should only warm-up on their half of the court.
Only authorized personnel should be permitted on the floor. All spectators
should be in designated areas.

Originally Posted by Freddy

You could have found any reason to leave prior to the FTs for the T. Any reason. Think creative.

Ran out of gas. Had a flat tire. Didn't have enough money for cab fare. Tux didn't come back from the cleaners. Old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole car. There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts!

Originally Posted by WDEvol

Are players properly equipped, we want to encourage good sportsmanship.

Do players know how to wear their uniforms properly?

2-4-5: Verify with the head coach, prior to each contest, that his/her team
member’s uniforms and equipment are legal and will be worn properly, and that
all participants will exhibit proper sporting behavior throughout the contest.

[WDEvol]

Originally Posted by zm1283

I had a partner recently that pointed each direction and announced which way the teams were going before tossing the ball. He also had a captain's meeting that was about a minute and a half long that included "We'll try to talk you out of fouls", "We want to keep you in the game", "Play defense with your feet", "We'll talk you out of three seconds"...and on and on.

We've had discussions in our local meetings about trying to keep the pre-game conference as short as possible. Yet there are still a few officials that insist on asking for "speaking captains" and "make sure you come to the X to check in, or we'll call a technical foul" and things like that. (My partner last night was one of these.)

I try to keep it to 20 seconds or less. Are players properly equipped, we want to encourage good sportsmanship, any questions. Done. There's no need for any more than that.