Bad game, Good Games

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I would add that, even though we didn't see the play, if you deem that there was no foul, then there was no foul.

You can't control players' actions, and it's completely uncalled for for him to get in your face and physically confront you. He deserves what's coming to him.

He said this...
"I have a crash on the baseline"

So it appears he should have had a whistle. A good official recognizes when he misses a call. We can't just say "I didn't call it, so it wasn't a foul".

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He said this...
"I have a crash on the baseline"

So it appears he should have had a whistle. A good official recognizes when he misses a call. We can't just say "I didn't call it, so it wasn't a foul".

Fine, but I have no reason to question his judgement. The way he described the action after that sounded like two players maybe exaggerating contact.

[maven]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Fine, but I have no reason to question his judgement.

Sure you do. He questioned his own judgment, and he was there.

To the OP:
A defender can anticipate contact and it still ends up disadvantaging him, resulting in an offensive foul. A dribbler can try to "draw a block" and, if the defender obliges, succeed. It sounds to me as if you might be trying to judge what's going on in their heads, and it's taking you out of the game a bit. Just a thought.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by maven

Sure you do. He questioned his own judgment, and he was there.

He's the only one who should question his judgement, since he was only one there and the only one who saw the play. I didn't see it, so I can't judge.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Fine, but I have no reason to question his judgement. The way he described the action after that sounded like two players maybe exaggerating contact.

That's how I felt when it happened.

In Hindsight, I believe I should have made a call, because of the out come, the 2 "T"s.

If the kid had not complained, I would have been fine with the no call.


But I have learned a lesson and that's the reason for the post.

1- Make a call. I would have called a Block, right or wrong. I believe D flopped.

2- Clear your mind. Easier said than done. But you have to do it.

3- It's not the end of the world when you miss a call or make a bad call. It's just a call.

4- Stay focus or worse things can happen.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

That's how I felt when it happened.

In Hindsight, I believe I should have made a call, because of the out come, the 2 "T"s.

If the kid had not complained, I would have been fine with the no call.

If the kid got hit with a baseball bat on the play, he can't do what he did to you. What level was this?

[DRJ1960]

I cannot find a way to express strongly enough that I disagree with the idea that ejecting the player who was begging for it made your performance "bad".

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the kid got hit with a baseball bat on the play, he can't do what he did to you. What level was this?

It was a Church league, HS Varsity level. Mostly 17 & 18 yr olds. 2 man official crew.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

That's how I felt when it happened.

In Hindsight, I believe I should have made a call, because of the out come, the 2 "T"s.

You need to fix this mindset, IMO.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by Rich

You need to fix this mindset, IMO.

I understand. I just wish we could have avoided the problem.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

That's how I felt when it happened.

In Hindsight, I believe I should have made a call, because of the out come, the 2 "T"s.

If the kid had not complained, I would have been fine with the no call......

That is the wrong reason to question your judgment on the call. It has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you missed the call.

You either feel you missed it or you didn't. But if you're gonna base your assessment of the play by the reaction of some a$$-hat teenager then you're in the wrong business.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He said this...
"I have a crash on the baseline"

So it appears he should have had a whistle. A good official recognizes when he misses a call. We can't just say "I didn't call it, so it wasn't a foul".

Agreed.

I have no idea if there should have been a foul called or not. It doesn't matter though.

My approach though is that when someone goes to the floor, we have to know how. (I know it can be tough at times, especially in 2-man crews.) But when a crash is big enough*, I think in order to not have a foul (block or charge), we can lean towards a call until something exists to prove us otherwise.

A baseball analogy would be, the batter-runner is out at 1B unless something exists that shows otherwise: he clearly beat the ball to the bag, or the foot was clearly lifted before caught, etc.

However, we have just a split second to make that call in basketball. I don't know how long baseball has to make the above call. So, make the call, and live with it. But if it's the right call, you'll know it on the drive home. If you screwed it up, you'll know that too.


* big enough likely comes from experience

[stiffler3492]

I agree with that notion too, with the points that Juggling added.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Agreed.

I have no idea if there should have been a foul called or not. It doesn't matter though.

My approach though is that when someone goes to the floor, we have to know how. (I know it can be tough at times, especially in 2-man crews.) But when a crash is big enough*, I think in order to not have a foul (block or charge), we can lean towards a call until something exists to prove us otherwise.

A baseball analogy would be, the batter-runner is out at 1B unless something exists that shows otherwise: he clearly beat the ball to the bag, or the foot was clearly lifted before caught, etc.

However, we have just a split second to make that call in basketball. I don't know how long baseball has to make the above call. So, make the call, and live with it. But if it's the right call, you'll know it on the drive home. If you screwed it up, you'll know that too.


* big enough likely comes from experience

If you can't pin it on the defense, I think you have to go with a player control foul. A true 50/50 should go that way, cause A1 had the choice of whether to go through the defender.

Still, I've had some players go down fairly hard with no foul in the past -- and I've felt perfectly fine with my decision. He needs to make that decision without considering A2's reaction -- just because a player flips and gets ejected doesn't mean he made a bad initial decision.