Bad game, Good Games

[Terrapins Fan]

I hate when I have a bad game. Fortunately, it's rare.

I had one Saturday night. close game, 1 point lead with 4 minutes tio go. I have a crash on the baseline, but I pass on it. My thinking was, Defender was trying to draw the charge and when the OP got there, he tried to draw the block, IMO, at that time, I wasn't going to give it to either. Because of my no call, A2 ( not involved in the play) came screaming at me and I "T"ed him up. He then put his hand in my chest and pushed me, "T" #2. He was gone.

It changed the game, B made 3 out of 4 FTs and won the game by 4.

I should have made a call on the Block/charge, either way and it would have been better. Lesson learned.

Bad game.

Monday, Had a Girls Varsity game. Saturday's game was still on my mind. I tried to shake it but I keep thinking, "make the call". The game went very well, good calls all around ( me and partners ).

Tuesday, Boys varsity. I am the R. Had good pre game and we had a great game. Half time Visitors up 1. End of 3rd Home up 1. Home won by 5 because of FT shooting. Good game.

Glad that bad game is behind me. I know we have to get it out of our head, but it is easier said then done.

Special thanks to BillyMac for his advice.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I hate when I have a bad game. Fortunately, it's rare.

I had one Saturday night. close game, 1 point lead with 4 minutes tio go. I have a crash on the baseline, but I pass on it. My thinking was, Defender was trying to draw the charge and when the OP got there, he tried to draw the block, IMO, at that time, I wasn't going to give it to either. Because of my no call, A2 ( not involved in the play) came screaming at me and I "T"ed him up. He then put his hand in my chest and pushed me, "T" #2. He was gone.

It changed the game, B made 3 out of 4 FTs and won the game by 4.

I should have made a call on the Block/charge, either way and it would have been better. Lesson learned.

Bad game.

Monday, Had a Girls Varsity game. Saturday's game was still on my mind. I tried to shake it but I keep thinking, "make the call". The game went very well, good calls all around ( me and partners ).

Tuesday, Boys varsity. I am the R. Had good pre game and we had a great game. Half time Visitors up 1. End of 3rd Home up 1. Home won by 5 because of FT shooting. Good game.

Glad that bad game is behind me. I know we have to get it out of our head, but it is easier said then done.

Special thanks to BillyMac for his advice.

Glad to hear the next two games went well. That's a sign of a fantastic official, imho.

Can I offer something? Anytime a player pushes you, call the foul a flagrant foul. Even if the outcome is the same, because said player received a previous T.

If a player pushed you who hadn't yet receive a T, would you also only T him up? Or would you issue a flagrant T?

[stiffler3492]

I would add that, even though we didn't see the play, if you deem that there was no foul, then there was no foul.

You can't control players' actions, and it's completely uncalled for for him to get in your face and physically confront you. He deserves what's coming to him.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

I would add that, even though we didn't see the play, if you deem that there was no foul, then there was no foul.

You can't control players' actions, and it's completely uncalled for for him to get in your face and physically confront you. He deserves what's coming to him.

He said this...
"I have a crash on the baseline"

So it appears he should have had a whistle. A good official recognizes when he misses a call. We can't just say "I didn't call it, so it wasn't a foul".

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He said this...
"I have a crash on the baseline"

So it appears he should have had a whistle. A good official recognizes when he misses a call. We can't just say "I didn't call it, so it wasn't a foul".

Fine, but I have no reason to question his judgement. The way he described the action after that sounded like two players maybe exaggerating contact.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He said this...
"I have a crash on the baseline"

So it appears he should have had a whistle. A good official recognizes when he misses a call. We can't just say "I didn't call it, so it wasn't a foul".

Agreed.

I have no idea if there should have been a foul called or not. It doesn't matter though.

My approach though is that when someone goes to the floor, we have to know how. (I know it can be tough at times, especially in 2-man crews.) But when a crash is big enough*, I think in order to not have a foul (block or charge), we can lean towards a call until something exists to prove us otherwise.

A baseball analogy would be, the batter-runner is out at 1B unless something exists that shows otherwise: he clearly beat the ball to the bag, or the foot was clearly lifted before caught, etc.

However, we have just a split second to make that call in basketball. I don't know how long baseball has to make the above call. So, make the call, and live with it. But if it's the right call, you'll know it on the drive home. If you screwed it up, you'll know that too.


* big enough likely comes from experience

[stiffler3492]

I agree with that notion too, with the points that Juggling added.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I hate when I have a bad game. Fortunately, it's rare.

I had one Saturday night. close game, 1 point lead with 4 minutes tio go. I have a crash on the baseline, but I pass on it. My thinking was, Defender was trying to draw the charge and when the OP got there, he tried to draw the block, IMO, at that time, I wasn't going to give it to either. Because of my no call, A2 ( not involved in the play) came screaming at me and I "T"ed him up. He then put his hand in my chest and pushed me, "T" #2. He was gone.

It changed the game, B made 3 out of 4 FTs and won the game by 4.

I should have made a call on the Block/charge, either way and it would have been better. Lesson learned.

I won't question whether there should've been a foul. I'll just question this: You're letting A2's reaction change how you feel about a play and the decision you made at the time. I think that's a mistake. You can't control a player's reaction.

If you feel, absent the reaction, that you should've had a foul, fine. But leave that out of the equation.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Agreed.

I have no idea if there should have been a foul called or not. It doesn't matter though.

My approach though is that when someone goes to the floor, we have to know how. (I know it can be tough at times, especially in 2-man crews.) But when a crash is big enough*, I think in order to not have a foul (block or charge), we can lean towards a call until something exists to prove us otherwise.

A baseball analogy would be, the batter-runner is out at 1B unless something exists that shows otherwise: he clearly beat the ball to the bag, or the foot was clearly lifted before caught, etc.

However, we have just a split second to make that call in basketball. I don't know how long baseball has to make the above call. So, make the call, and live with it. But if it's the right call, you'll know it on the drive home. If you screwed it up, you'll know that too.


* big enough likely comes from experience

If you can't pin it on the defense, I think you have to go with a player control foul. A true 50/50 should go that way, cause A1 had the choice of whether to go through the defender.

Still, I've had some players go down fairly hard with no foul in the past -- and I've felt perfectly fine with my decision. He needs to make that decision without considering A2's reaction -- just because a player flips and gets ejected doesn't mean he made a bad initial decision.

[maven]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Fine, but I have no reason to question his judgement.

Sure you do. He questioned his own judgment, and he was there.

To the OP:
A defender can anticipate contact and it still ends up disadvantaging him, resulting in an offensive foul. A dribbler can try to "draw a block" and, if the defender obliges, succeed. It sounds to me as if you might be trying to judge what's going on in their heads, and it's taking you out of the game a bit. Just a thought.

[stiffler3492]

Originally Posted by maven

Sure you do. He questioned his own judgment, and he was there.

He's the only one who should question his judgement, since he was only one there and the only one who saw the play. I didn't see it, so I can't judge.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by rich

i won't question whether there should've been a foul. I'll just question this: You're letting a2's reaction change how you feel about a play and the decision you made at the time. I think that's a mistake. You can't control a player's reaction.

If you feel, absent the reaction, that you should've had a foul, fine. But leave that out of the equation.

+1

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by stiffler3492

Fine, but I have no reason to question his judgement. The way he described the action after that sounded like two players maybe exaggerating contact.

That's how I felt when it happened.

In Hindsight, I believe I should have made a call, because of the out come, the 2 "T"s.

If the kid had not complained, I would have been fine with the no call.


But I have learned a lesson and that's the reason for the post.

1- Make a call. I would have called a Block, right or wrong. I believe D flopped.

2- Clear your mind. Easier said than done. But you have to do it.

3- It's not the end of the world when you miss a call or make a bad call. It's just a call.

4- Stay focus or worse things can happen.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

That's how I felt when it happened.

In Hindsight, I believe I should have made a call, because of the out come, the 2 "T"s.

If the kid had not complained, I would have been fine with the no call.

If the kid got hit with a baseball bat on the play, he can't do what he did to you. What level was this?

[DRJ1960]

I cannot find a way to express strongly enough that I disagree with the idea that ejecting the player who was begging for it made your performance "bad".